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  1. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 4:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey

    And for the record I am sure Kungfoolss would say all sorts of things to your face in front of your mother . With her bad knees I doubt she would be percieved as much of a threat .
    I'd just tell her to get knee pads.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  2. BackFistMonkey is offline
    BackFistMonkey's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 4:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by odd_lifter
    you're being defensive and have an agenda
    Me advising you how to properly give context to your comment has nothing to do with being defensive NOR my opinion on Systema .

    ( see how that works ? You make a comment ... I quote it using the button and everyone can follow what the hell you are talking about ) .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  3. odd_lifter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 5:25pm


     Style: grab & elbow the head

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you're begging the question
  4. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 5:41pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by odd_lifter
    you're begging the question
    You're post whoring and talking to yourself .... makes sense or stop posting .

    Speaking of which ( making sense) ...

    How am I " begging the question" ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  5. odd_lifter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 6:01pm


     Style: grab & elbow the head

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem is your focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.
  6. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 6:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Me advising you how to properly give context to your comment has nothing to do with being defensive NOR my opinion on Systema .

    ( see how that works ? You make a comment ... I quote it using the button and everyone can follow what the hell you are talking about ) .

    Quote Originally Posted by odd_lifter
    you're begging the question

    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    You're post whoring and talking to yourself .... makes sense or stop posting .

    Speaking of which ( making sense) ...

    How am I " begging the question" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by odd_lifter
    The problem is your focusing on the things in life that don't really matter. When I was a kid I had hopes and dreams. We all did. But over time, the daily grind gets in the way and you miss the things that really matter, even though they are right in front of you, staring you in the face. I think the next time you should ask yourself "Am I on the right track here?". I don't mean to be rude but people like you I really pity. So maybe you could use the few brain cells you have and take advantage of the knowledge I have given you now. Good luck.
    So you have no idea what the term really means and are running off at the mouth trying to appear expirenced ? While ignoring the fact that I am trying to help you present your arguements in a manner that makes sense ?


    Don't waste your time trying to pitty me . There are more deserving people out there . Like Kungfoolss for example .

    I pitty him becouse he seems not to have a filter the rest of us have . He sees some **** he thinks is wrong and simply sprews from the fingers about it . Usualy sharp observations . Not always the nicest comments or observations and not always valid when the ideas are fully explored and deconstructed but usualy pretty on key none the less .

    I am sorry what were you saying again ? I got side tracked .... **** I forgot what the topic was again ...

    OH YEAH !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    Systema; the way not to do.
    (*=legal terms used.)

    So you are trapped in a room within only fifteen minutes of air left. The room is made of steel, the door is made of steel, it is air tight and the door is locked. You do not have a key, there is no window and the air is getting stale. What do you do? Unlock the door and go outside. Simple answer.

    This is a riddle I present to my students. Usually the most simple minded get this easily. What does this have to do with Systema? I will get to that in a moment. A gentleman named Rich Grannon shown here http://www.systemaquestionsanswered.co.uk/ : this video was designed to show that an experienced and trained ‘cage fighter’ found value in Systema. There was only one problem with this. According to my resources Richard Grannon is not a cage fighter. He has never trained for an actual cage fight or trained with an instructor that teaches cage fighting. What Mr. Grannon has stated is that he has studied their techniques but has never seriously trained in any of them. This means nothing to most professional fighters. Studying and doing are two distinct differences. Nowhere in his biography does he mention actually cage fighting or sporting of any record but he talks ignorantly of being an expert.

    Mr Grannon in his own words
    “And in no way am I criticizing "No Holds Barred" training. Over the years since Ultimate Fighting Championship 1 came out (1991?), I have experimented with some of the movements with training partners and where possible have trained at various schools of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Shootfighting. However I have personally fallen into the real fight "pitfalls" that come from this type of training.”

    In the ‘youtube.com’ video he is shown doing several techniques with Paul Genge. His attacks are sloppy, predictable and look outright staged. One thing we should know from most ‘highlight videos’ is that they can lie and that we could pick apart a video all day. The important thing to state here is that Richard Grannon, at least in my opinion, is not a reliable recommendation as a ‘cage fighter’. What he represents is himself and nothing more. He could not give a reasonable explanation on why techniques did work which only went to show me that Mr. Grannon *sucks ass as a martial arts expert. Richard Grannon is nothing more than a *bullshit artist.

    On the other hand I offered to step up and analyze the Systema techniques as a professional fighter and instructor. I have experience in personal security, bar security, and a few street skirmishes here and there. Members HanktheTank, Kobayashi, and Csinca have offered their resources in finding truths in Systema training. I grouped together 4 instructors spanning several disciplines to dissect the techniques shown. The instructions to these experts were to make the techniques work, understand the techniques, and break down the exercises as best we could in the short amount of time. These instructors represent Jeet Kune Do, Silat, MMA, Aikijitsu, Kali, Wing Chun, Muay Thai, SAMBO, BJJ, Taekwondo, Kenjitsu and Kung-fu; two of the instructors have fought and taught people for dog brother gatherings. We asked for one systema instructor to come and show us what systema was all about but after initial contact the instructor never returned our follow up emails. No other instructor volunteered.

    The simple truth, systema is bullshit. There is no other way around it the various exercises and drills they do are nothing but a waste of time. We found no value in what they were saying or attempting to teach. The knife fighting should be dubbed, ‘how to get stabbed a lot’ or ‘how not to defend yourself against a knife’. On their own literature they state things such as:

    ‘Hitting somebody with your chest so hard that they fall over’ -very silly.

    ‘Transferring the impact of a blow right out of your body onto another person’ –main comment, who hits like that?

    ‘Small, subtle hits so powerful that even the bystanders feel them’ –we never got this one to work.

    ‘Light punches that reach the internal organs, bypassing the muscles’ – it’s called a sucker punch.

    ‘Phenomenal use of breathing and psychology to dispel direct blows’ – kia!

    ‘Unbelievable strikes that remove stress, tension, fear, make people stronger and actually heal them!” – Re read this slowly it isn’t a typo.

    ‘…the secrets of what makes them so devastating and simple to apply’ -we gave these techniques to advanced students. They had three days to figure them out. None of them did. So much for simple.

    I would rather not go into all the techniques we went through. This is not to say none of it would work. The general consensus was why bother. All the instructors present pride themselves in gathering the most mundane of techniques, who knows how useful these techniques would be in the future, there was nothing of true value that we could find in the training methods. Now some of their strategies were interesting but what was more interesting was how Vladimir Vasiliev broke his own training theory such as relax the arms below the waist and brought them up in a guard position during the exercise. Again it may seem like I’m nit picking but I’m not. The more video we watched the worse it got.

    So is systema complete rubbish? No, it is not. Systema practitioners still train hard. They learn grappling they do spar. One of the instructors actually likes their shovel techniques. They do learn valid techniques that have actually been proven. None of these techniques that I have learned, have anything to do with the wavy, internal, breathing ***** we found on the videos. As I hinted at the beginning of my report sometimes the simplest answers tend to be the best. Most of those no touch knockdowns you have seen are actually just exercises in avoidance and movement. Most of those light touches where a person gets knocked off their feet is a student being sucker punched, or reacting according to a preconditioned response, like aikidoka getting airborne from a simple wrist lock.

    I have sparred two systema practitioners in my life time. Both of whom hurt themselves sparring, and after watching these videos I now know why. While I developed a huge headache, one of my instructors rolled around laughing while my students stood around with gapping mouths.
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 8/27/2006 6:23pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  7. systemavin is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/27/2006 7:05pm


     Style: Systema/ninjutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The reality is that most people on here could not beat snow out of a rope and have no real experience of drinking/shagging/fighting and couldnt punch their way out of a wet paper bag. Any decent fighter that I have met is a very humble individual and respectful of other ARTs (sorry farts). If you dont like systema, fine but have the balls to turn up and have a go. For feck sake most are just pansies according to you lot! What are you worried about?

    " If you cant punch you cant fight" Get a reality check!
  8. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 12:39am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey

    Don't waste your time trying to pitty me . There are more deserving people out there . Like Kungfoolss for example .

    I pitty him becouse he seems not to have a filter the rest of us have . He sees some **** he thinks is wrong and simply sprews from the fingers about it . Usualy sharp observations . Not always the nicest comments or observations and not always valid when the ideas are fully explored and deconstructed but usualy pretty on key none the less .
    That's right, I need all the pity I can get! I just can't seem to stop pissing folks off, especially in the systema quarters. When I'm honest, they condemn me. When I'm sincere, they push for my extermination. I ask you, is this fair - is this right?

    Oh, heavy is the burden of being me....:new_puppy
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  9. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 12:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by systemavin
    The reality is that most people on here could not beat snow out of a rope and have no real experience of drinking/shagging/fighting and couldnt punch their way out of a wet paper bag.
    You'd be a bit more persuasive if you changed the first seven letters of your screen name.

    Any decent fighter that I have met is a very humble individual and respectful of other ARTs (sorry farts).
    I think it's funny that even inept fighters will laugh at you guys on video.

    If you dont like systema, fine but have the balls to turn up and have a go. For feck sake most are just pansies according to you lot! What are you worried about?
    So I've got duel with attackproof and Duk's ryu if I mock them too?
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  10. odd_lifter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/29/2006 5:32am


     Style: grab & elbow the head

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kungfoolss
    So I've got duel with attackproof and Duk's ryu if I mock them too?
    don't forget the dim mak and chi masters

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