Final Report: Systema-

**systemavin** · Posted On: 8/19/2006 4:04pm

Why not get someone who has trained in all the bullshit arts like systema, ninjutsu, Dim Mak. Clue there for ye! Suck it and see whats its all about. It might be bullshit but at least have the balls and bottle to turn up. Try it out and exchange ideas and then feck off, if you dont like like it, so what, but at least form an opinion from experience. Most systema people havent got a clue how Mikhail strikes, but it wont be the first martial art,etc etc Ive seen RSBS, martial arts, guys go on about how to deal with a boxer, etc. Its fecking crap.....they cant even punch properly, for feck sake, slappy ****, what ever. But for feck sake....turn up and give a go.
Geoff Thompson once said, if you cant punch you cant fight. Most fights start at a punching range. I suppose he is a muppet, cultist, etc. Another one I am sick and tired of hearing shite on forums, about if you do sport Martial Arts, its not real, it wouldnt work on the streets. Bullshit, go and take a punch or a kick off a boxer and muthai/kickboxer. Get real the lot of ya.

Peace and love

**kiai_killer** · Posted On: 8/19/2006 4:42pm

Did you even read the very first post, ie. the "Final Report"?

Originally Posted by shoocatz

*Sigh*, you're talking around the issue and not addressing it so I'll make it a simple logic argument.
People with first hand knowledge have nothing bad to say about it.
People saying bad things about it have no first hand knowledge.

So Kungfoolss, what is the only conclusion of this argument?
I knew you'd get it....

**Cullion** · Posted On: 8/19/2006 5:24pm

To be fair, there have been a couple of reports of Systema being practiced effectively from people on this board who've seen it up close.

Vin has boxed competitively (dunno if it was pro or amateur) so he probably has a better idea about how to punch and what a good punch feels like to take than a lot of people here.

I have some questions for Vin or any other systema practitioners who care to answer :-

1) Has there been anybody who practices what you'd recognise as 'authentic' Systema who's competed in any kind of combat sport (since taking up systema) and how did they do ?

2) If they did ok, is it possible to get a comment from them on how they think their Systema training helped ?

3) Is it possible to see video of any of their post-taking up Systema bouts ?

4) Do you sometimes feel that some of the stuff Mikhail gets caught saying on video is a bit embarrassing ?

5) I remember seeing a brief vid of sparring from a UK Systema class that looked like they were going quite hard, do you have any more vids like that we can look at ?

**shoocatz** · Posted On: 8/19/2006 11:31pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake??

First off I'm not kungfools.

Second off the argument is about the no touch knockouts and mystical BS in Systema.

Yes, there are people who have taken systema and don't like it. Just like any MA.

Get a clue.

Ok, apologies, that guy is very annoying but I do need to know more about navigating these forums.
Second, I did read the original post and the argument started about what you say but now the tone is dismissive of the whole thing.

Lastly, the argument I mentioned is based on just that point. Show me someone somewhere saying they didn't like it once they tried it. All you guys do is conjencture on second hand evidence, it's silly.

Having said that, let me say something about the 'mystical' stuff and 'no touch' knockouts.

Regarding the business about 'going blind with straight punches'. His point was offhand (one comment out of a two hour tape, c'mon) and was a reference to the idea you want your punches loose from the shoulder and without windup so you get little recoil. Jarring movements can accumulate. Some boxers have eye problems. Sound reasonable?

'no touch knock outs'. Not sure what you're talking about. If its about waving the hand in front of the face you can try it yourself. If someone is moving towards you aggressively you can alter their plain of motion by a dramatic use of your hand. How do you like a big hand waved in your face while you're moving forward? It causes momentary confusion. It takes confidence and timing. Mikhail is so good at it he can actually get you to follow his hand right to the ground. I can understand why it looks weird on the tapes if you don't know the concept. It's a surprise tactic and effective under certain circumstance, nuff said.

The core of systema is body awareness. But not just your body, the other person(s) as well. Systema is all about being soft and subtle and being comfortable when working very close.

Someone said something about 'knocking people out with your chest is bullshit'.
Picture this- your opponent is very close, off balance and falling forward. You wack him with a stiff shoulder or a thrust of the chest to aid in putting him down.
Try to think of this not as a technique. You don't go into a fight in systema with any preconceived notion of how you will react, you just trust your abilility to take a punch (we hit each other all the time very hard in all areas including the face- but its a gradual buildup so you don't freak out) and be able to work with it. If you can't put them down on that keep moving, be patient and escape and wait for the next opportunity.

I think thats enough for now, I can get into it more if anyone's interested and can't get to a class to make up your own mind.

**Kungfoolss** · Posted On: 8/19/2006 11:35pm

Originally Posted by HANKtheTANK

I don't expect my attacker to be accomadating

point is, sure, the thrower deserves to have a matted area to fully throw a person

but what about the other way around when you are the one being thrown? If you always lands on mats, your body won't properly adjust to harder surfaces.

This idiocy demonstrates why systema practitioners are not only inept but poorly educated as well. If you learn how to fall on mats, your muscle memory will develop to such a degree you'll know how to minimize the injure when you get thrown onto a hard surface. But you certainly won't develop this ability if you just train to "softly" go to the ground. This may come as a revelation to you, but not all mats are the same nor do they cushion the impact the same. In addition, when you get slammed hard enough, even on a mat, the impact can send you to the hospital.

Seeing how you're an systema retard, I'm hardly surprised you aren't aware of these most basic of truths.

**Kungfoolss** · Posted On: 8/19/2006 11:40pm

Originally Posted by Cullion

I have some questions for Vin or any other systema practitioners who care to answer :-

1) Has there been anybody who practices what you'd recognise as 'authentic' Systema who's competed in any kind of combat sport (since taking up systema) and how did they do ?

Is that anything like authentic taekwondo?

2)
4) Do you sometimes feel that some of the stuff Mikhail gets caught saying on video is a bit embarrassing ?

I would've thought the video footage of their fight sequences were embarrassing enough.

**Kungfoolss** · Posted On: 8/20/2006 5:46am

And you thought systema was the only retard system with practices such as these ->

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_4QAxx4GmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly-iiyFzyk4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KItwrQQ-AKo

**Cullion** · Posted On: 8/20/2006 6:33am

Originally Posted by Kungfoolss

Is that anything like authentic taekwondo?

I say authentic because the Systema people that Karl Tanswell made to look stupid apparently aren't recognised as proper Systema by the practitioners posting here.

I would've thought the video footage of their fight sequences were embarrassing enough.

Well yeah, but I've also read a few positive reports about Systema people being able to grapple and spar from Bullshido members who are known to do non-bullshit training. So it sounds like there a few systema groups out there doing stuff which Bullshido members would recognise as good, and it would be interetesting to see it.

**kiai_killer** · Posted On: 8/20/2006 7:47am

Originally Posted by Cullion

I say authentic because the Systema people that Karl Tanswell made to look stupid apparently aren't recognised as proper Systema by the practitioners posting here.

Well yeah, but I've also read a few positive reports about Systema people being able to grapple and spar from Bullshido members who are known to do non-bullshit training. So it sounds like there a few systema groups out there doing stuff which Bullshido members would recognise as good, and it would be interetesting to see it.

Some of them may be able to fight at a decent level, they may do hard sparring - but it's all the extra BS that gets my goat. I would feel the same way if eg. the coach of a top MMA team started spraying out the same style of stupid. I certainly wouldn't go train at their gym! It doesn't matter if they can fight well, I'd rather not support the proliferation of BS in the martial arts.

**Cullion** · Posted On: 8/20/2006 9:06am

Originally Posted by kiai_killer

Some of them may be able to fight at a decent level, they may do hard sparring - but it's all the extra BS that gets my goat. I would feel the same way if eg. the coach of a top MMA team started spraying out the same style of stupid. I certainly wouldn't go train at their gym! It doesn't matter if they can fight well, I'd rather not support the proliferation of BS in the martial arts.

According to ICY and others, there is some decent Systema out there. I just want to see it out of interest. You'll not find me defending emotional therapy by striking or anything like that. I'm trying to find out if it's mainly Mikhail who does this stuff. Maybe I missed something in this thread, but I've not heard or seen examples of the same kind of nonsense from Vlad or his brother.