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  1. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 6:17am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    I brought up the LEO footage again because ...
    Dude, nobody is impressed by the cop footage of the cut-down technique. It is video of well built cops in body armour grabbing people from behind and pulling them over backwards. Do not expect people to be impressed by this. Sure it works. Please address the knife defences and explain the striking mechanics that Omega felt were weird.

    And stop pretending to be neutral with 'European MA' in that style field. You are so obviously a pissed off Systema practitioner.
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  2. mrblackmagic is offline
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    My pleasure.

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 7:25am

    Join us... or die
     Style: yang taichi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    If you're talking about the self defense maneuvers in general, that's hypothetical until someone catches an advanced Systema practitioner being attacked, for real, on video. We may be waiting a long time for that sort of proof.
    What are the odds of that happening???? We can't even get a legitimate style vs style video!!!
  3. Don Gwinn is online now
    Don Gwinn's Avatar

    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 11:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Strikes that heal, there was lots of that kinda stuff on the video, like punching a guy and then &quot;taking the punch away&quot; after it hit. Also giving someone energy from a strike and strikes that stay in the body and move around causing more damage. Uh huh.
    Healing strikes are t3h r34l. My dad used to do them on me. First, he'd punch me in the shoulder or kick me in the shin. Then he'd say "Oh, I'm sorry, here, let me take it back."

    He would then proceed to hit the same spot. This rarely worked, unfortunately, because my chi was too strong.

    At that point, he would usually turn to another technique--stomping the other foot, specifically the big toe. "Forgot all about your shoulder, right?" He'd say.

    And you know what? I had forgotten all about my shoulder.

    Good times. Good times.
    *********************************************
  4. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 11:23am

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's odd, Gwinn doesn't sound like a Russian name.
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  5. BackFistMonkey is online now
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    Actual Photo

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 11:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    That's odd, Gwinn doesn't sound like a Russian name.
    Bullshit !!!

    Gwin is just as Russian as Smith or " llion" . God damned recliner warriors with their wireless keyboards ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    “I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.”
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  6. Kungfoolss is offline

    I restore the Balance

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 12:27pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: I wear pants

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by odd_lifter
    it worked for ryabko though....


    p.s.
    stop ripping on ryabko's weight, he looks like a damn underwear model next to chris sayoc
    That must be a 15 year old photograph. Even back then that russians a fat bastard. I enjoy Chris sayoc, hopefully he and his other fat associates will soon die from congestive heart failure. John Perkin's is still going strong, it must be that awesome training he received at age 5 to becoming a warrior that's staving of the spectre of death.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 5:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    Dude, nobody is impressed by the cop footage of the cut-down technique. It is video of well built cops in body armour grabbing people from behind and pulling them over backwards. Do not expect people to be impressed by this. Sure it works. Please address the knife defences and explain the striking mechanics that Omega felt were weird.

    And stop pretending to be neutral with 'European MA' in that style field. You are so obviously a pissed off Systema practitioner.
    The Strategos footage shows LEOs applying a simple, effective takedown method that was part of their Systema-based training. People asked for evidence that the training works on the street, and there it is - whether it's "impressive" or not is beside the point.

    Before I address the knife defenses, do you understand the Systema training process, or are you just looking at online clips and thinking "that technique was bullshit?" I ask because there's no profit in discussing any of this at the technical level unless you understand that Systema doesn't teach techniques.

    Striking mechanics; because I seem to be blessed with infinite patience when it comes to this subject, I've just trawled back through this entire thread looking for examples of Omega's opinion on Systema striking mechanics. In one of his early posts, he said that

    Mikhail Ryabko can really hit, he hits very effectively: Using the exact same principals I see in many other striking systems.

    Can Systema strike: the wave technique is crap but they strike
    Later on, in response to some of Vinnie's comments, he said:

    Sure the punches are different than boxing, I never said they were similiar to boxing. Closer to Tai Chi, very solid base.
    and

    Do I think that you can generate some serious power with systema, sure. Is there anything mysterious about the way they punch? No, I have too much experiance in this. I saw the way they punched and did it to elicit the reaction they needed. Sorry just because you've never experianced it doesn't mean I haven't.
    That's all I can find on the subject of striking mechanics, so I have to assume that you're talking about the wave principle (?) If so, I agree with Omega that there is nothing mysterious about the way they punch. What they call the "wave principle" - not technique - is simply a way to generate momentum in striking by allowing the muscles to relax, rather than tensing up. It's well-known in many styles, such as Tai Chi, as Omega mentioned, and can be used to generate serious strikes, as he also mentioned.

    In fact, I'm not sure what his objection was, unless he doesn't believe that it's possible to achieve the necessary level of relaxation in a real stoush. Maybe he can step in and clarify this point.

    Finally, I did (twice) invite a moderator to check my IP address against the lists of international Systema schools and instructors available on the Systema websites. I don't know if anyone bothered to do that, but I can't think of any other way to prove a negative. The fact is that the art is not available anywhere in my country - I've looked - and I've never even met a practitioner. All of my interest in Systema is academic at this stage, but please feel free to believe that I'm lying about my background if that makes you happy.
  8. Shawarma is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 5:26pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Am I the only one thinking oddlifters photo seems doctored as ****?
  9. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 5:36pm

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    The Strategos footage shows LEOs applying a simple, effective takedown method that was part of their Systema-based training. People asked for evidence that the training works on the street, and there it is - whether it's "impressive" or not is beside the point.
    The reason I'm not impressed isn't because I'm expecting something more flashy, it's because I've used the same thing myself several times to break up fights without being trained to do it. Being able to taking down a weaker or less aware (due to drugs or delusional mental state) person from behind is not evidence of highly efficient training to me.

    Before I address the knife defenses, do you understand the Systema training process, or are you just looking at online clips and thinking "that technique was bullshit?" I ask because there's no profit in discussing any of this at the technical level unless you understand that Systema doesn't teach techniques.

    Striking mechanics; because I seem to be blessed with infinite patience when it comes to this subject, I've just trawled back through this entire thread looking for examples of Omega's opinion on Systema striking mechanics. In one of his early posts, he said that



    Later on, in response to some of Vinnie's comments, he said:



    and



    That's all I can find on the subject of striking mechanics, so I have to assume that you're talking about the wave principle (?) If so, I agree with Omega that there is nothing mysterious about the way they punch. What they call the "wave principle" - not technique - is simply a way to generate momentum in striking by allowing the muscles to relax, rather than tensing up. It's well-known in many styles, such as Tai Chi, as Omega mentioned, and can be used to generate serious strikes, as he also mentioned.
    I was thinking more of the stuff like in this video :-
    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...0919&q=systema


    In fact, I'm not sure what his objection was, unless he doesn't believe that it's possible to achieve the necessary level of relaxation in a real stoush. Maybe he can step in and clarify this point.

    Finally, I did (twice) invite a moderator to check my IP address against the lists of international Systema schools and instructors available on the Systema websites. I don't know if anyone bothered to do that, but I can't think of any other way to prove a negative. The fact is that the art is not available anywhere in my country - I've looked - and I've never even met a practitioner. All of my interest in Systema is academic at this stage, but please feel free to believe that I'm lying about my background if that makes you happy.
    Oh ok I was being unfair there, but you do seem to take this all really personally.
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  10. odd_lifter is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2006 6:06pm


     Style: grab & elbow the head

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    Am I the only one thinking oddlifters photo seems doctored as ****?
    nope...

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