Final Report: Systema-

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 5/27/2009 4:41pm

Here's a thread that features a video of a challenge fight between two of Moscow's top Systema instructors.

An Epic Battle of Two Systema Warriors (Video) - No BS Martial Arts

Does anything else need to be said?

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/28/2009 12:55pm

Originally Posted by HAPKO3

Here's a thread that features a video of a challenge fight between two of Moscow's top Systema instructors.

I think you might want to check your sources on the "top instructors" point.

**HAPKO3** · Posted On: 5/28/2009 6:00pm

Originally Posted by DdlR

I think you might want to check your sources on the "top instructors" point.

Sources checked. One of them is the Moscow representative of Kadochnikov's Systema (which is BY FAR the major branch of Systema) and the other is the chief instructor and founder of one of the offshoots. They are both in the top 10 as far as high profile Systema people in Russia go.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 5/28/2009 6:40pm

Wow, Starov "strikes" again...

**rw4th** · Posted On: 5/28/2009 10:40pm

And this is where it turns into an _ing _un style "they don't have teh real systema" no true Scotsman apologetic fest.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/28/2009 10:54pm

Originally Posted by HAPKO3

Sources checked. One of them is the Moscow representative of Kadochnikov's Systema (which is BY FAR the major branch of Systema) and the other is the chief instructor and founder of one of the offshoots. They are both in the top 10 as far as high profile Systema people in Russia go.

Check harder, especially re. Vadim Starov.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 5/29/2009 12:14am

Originally Posted by DdlR

Check harder, especially re. Vadim Starov.

Could you enlighten us on the issue?

As far as the video is concerned, its supports all my thoughts on Systema.

**DdlR** · Posted On: 5/29/2009 2:12am

My knowledge of Systema personality politics is casual and probably at least a few years out of date, but even I know that if Vadim Starov is being touted as a top practitioner, something is seriously out of whack.

Gossip aside, it's worth bearing in mind that Systema is a generic umbrella term, like "karate" or "jujitsu". There are numerous rival styles and organizations, and most of them seem to hate each other.

**rw4th** · Posted On: 5/29/2009 9:23am

Originally Posted by DdlR

My knowledge of Systema personality politics is casual and probably at least a few years out of date, but even I know that if Vadim Starov is being touted as a top practitioner, something is seriously out of whack.

Gossip aside, it's worth bearing in mind that Systema is a generic umbrella term, like "karate" or "jujitsu". There are numerous rival styles and organizations, and most of them seem to hate each other.

Replace "systema" with "wing chun" and read that back to yourself. The two guys in the video are instructors, and they are fighting like untrained schoolyard bullies.

**theotherserge** · Posted On: 5/29/2009 11:13am

Originally Posted by DdlR

My knowledge of Systema personality politics is casual and probably at least a few years out of date, but even I know that if Vadim Starov is being touted as a top practitioner, something is seriously out of whack.

Gossip aside, it's worth bearing in mind that Systema is a generic umbrella term, like "karate" or "jujitsu". There are numerous rival styles and organizations, and most of them seem to hate each other.

I might try the: Kano proscribed Judoka begin studying Juno-no-kata after they had their black belt-assertion; meaning that only when you showed proficiency as a fighter, did you begin to study the IMA-aspects of the art-form.

And I might make an analogy to Systema as a bio-mechanical-efficiency study for fighters or martial artists who already are competent in their basic skill-set. Especially considering the general physical culture of Russians in gymnastics, a wide-variety of sports and their overall health (sans smoking&vodka)

But then, there is Starov...