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  1. MrMcFu is offline

    Badness will not be rewarded

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 3:09pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RobG
    Look Mc...this has nothing to do with you..just weekly retorts to Fools - for he continues to try to mislead all readers with satatements like - 'you were willing to fly all the way to Hawaii just to meet me'..and other such bullshit.

    Not daily - who has time - well, he might have such time...you and I surely dont.

    IF I had gotten a yes or no - and the subject was laid to rest - I would have been happy to be out of here. BUT - if I get referrenced to here - but ducked in a sincere offer on top of it....well then - just ignore it all. Easy enough to do.


    My 'moronic rants will continue weekly or so - or never - just for 5 weeks - chewing up one hell of a lot less bandwidth than Kungfools tirades of ignorance here. **** if it was one of your cyber-idols making such an invite - you would be carrying yer pom-poms for all to see.

    Has nothing to do with you McFu -- I will say hello to yer friends.
    You are taking KFS seriously? What the hell? He's a gimmick. He makes work go by faster and will never accept a challenge in earnest.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 3:12pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMcFu
    You are taking KFS seriously? What the hell? He's a gimmick. He makes work go by faster and will never accept a challenge in earnest.

    Didn't I say something similiar to this 2 months ago?:eusa_naug
  3. MrMcFu is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 4:05pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    Didn't I say something similiar to this 2 months ago?:eusa_naug
    I think someone does, at least once a week.
  4. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 5:36pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kiai_killer
    From what was said earlier in this thread regarding striking with all parts of the hand, I doubt you would be in any danger of being beaten up. It would be like that kung-fu movie where they train the guy wrong as a joke so he beats himself up on his opponent. He used face-to-fist technique and balls-to-foot technique among others which I'm sure are also featured in the Systema curriculum.
    They skip that and go straight to 'knife defense using torso' IIRC. I still thought some of the strength and flexibility stuff looked good, but I'm pretty sure that's not unique to Systema.
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  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 7:24pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    They skip that and go straight to 'knife defense using torso' IIRC. I still thought some of the strength and flexibility stuff looked good, but I'm pretty sure that's not unique to Systema.
    There are movement/sensitivity exercises in which a knife tip placed against the torso is used as a point of reference - I'm guessing that the idea is that if you're ever in that dire situation, it's better to twist away and hope for a shallow cut across the bones and muscles (and then kill the other guy if you can) than to stand there and let them stab you.

    Once or twice on the online excerpts, I've seen Systemists using the torso to lever the flat of a blade out of an opponent's hand, usually after having locked the wrist and/or elbow. As usual, many of these are improvised experiments performed by students doing low-speed, low-resistance work.

    Systema is taught and practiced very differently from most MA/self defense methods. As far as I can make out, there are comparatively few techniques that are unique to Systema; the art is based on progressive experiments with tactical movement, not on learning a specific set of techniques. I believe that this is a way around the "wait, you're supposed to punch with your left hand" problem.

    Most Systema exercises are freestyle/improvised, performed first at low speed/resistance and then progressively harder and faster as the students become able to handle them safely. In the process, tactics and moves that don't stand up to the harder/faster work are dropped away and the student will ideally end up with a set of flexible, high-percentage skills.
  6. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 7:37pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd be interested in a comparison of Systema with this competitive 'Combat Sambo' stuff that seems to have produced fighters with good verifiable records.
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  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 7:53pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    I'd be interested in a comparison of Systema with this competitive 'Combat Sambo' stuff that seems to have produced fighters with good verifiable records.
    I do Combat SAMBO. What you are talking about is Combat Sport SAMBO....which I do too.
  8. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 8:44pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FWFIW, I'm developing a theory about the historical relationships between Ryabko Systema and SAMBO. I'm speculating that the Ryabko style is a development of Victor Spridonov's SAMOZ method, which he developed after suffering an injury that forced him to stop participating in sport SAMBO matches.

    Spridonov was a WW1 veteran and was one of the real pioneers of the modern RMA, heavily involved in designing the various forms of SAMBO.

    Due to his injury he began to use the massive resources of the NVKD's Dinamo organization, which included research into a huge number of ethnic MA/combat sports and military CQB methods as well as sports science, psychology, etc. to develop a new method based on more subtle movements.

    This method (known variously as SAM and as SAMOZ) apparently found favor with Spetsnaz units assigned to bodyguard duties and to covert operations, presumably because it could be used to take people down without a lot of spectacle or athletic effort. SAMOZ later seems to have spread to other departments within the KGB and the Russian government in general, for use by workers and operatives who were not required to train as regular soldiers but still required a means of self defense; and elements appear to have been mixed back in to the more mainstream Combat SAMBO courses for use by injured soldiers, etc.

    Please note that much of this is guesswork based on a bit of preliminary research - I'm hoping that more verifiable historical information will come to light.
  9. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 9:38pm

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     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    FWFIW, I'm developing a theory about the historical relationships between Ryabko Systema and SAMBO. I'm speculating that the Ryabko style is a development of Victor Spridonov's SAMOZ method, which he developed after suffering an injury that forced him to stop participating in sport SAMBO matches.

    Spridonov was a WW1 veteran and was one of the real pioneers of the modern RMA, heavily involved in designing the various forms of SAMBO.

    Due to his injury he began to use the massive resources of the NVKD's Dinamo organization, which included research into a huge number of ethnic MA/combat sports and military CQB methods as well as sports science, psychology, etc. to develop a new method based on more subtle movements.

    This method (known variously as SAM and as SAMOZ) apparently found favor with Spetsnaz units assigned to bodyguard duties and to covert operations, presumably because it could be used to take people down without a lot of spectacle or athletic effort. SAMOZ later seems to have spread to other departments within the KGB and the Russian government in general, for use by workers and operatives who were not required to train as regular soldiers but still required a means of self defense; and elements appear to have been mixed back in to the more mainstream Combat SAMBO courses for use by injured soldiers, etc.

    Please note that much of this is guesswork based on a bit of preliminary research - I'm hoping that more verifiable historical information will come to light.
    Why do you care and why do you think it is so hard to get this connection ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    I do Combat SAMBO. What you are talking about is Combat Sport SAMBO....which I do too.

    I was wondering when you were going to bring up the fact that you just happen to be researching Systema and have expirence in a proven Russian Martial Art System .

    I was starting to think I was remembering one of your older posts wrong .
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  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/06/2006 10:35pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BackFistMonkey
    Why do you care and why do you think it is so hard to get this connection ?
    I'm interested in finding out how modern RMA (including the various SAMBO forms, ROSS, K-Sys, Ryabko Systema, etc.) were developed. Most of the available info. online is vague, with references to ancient Cossacks, etc. and I would like to know the real, verifiable history.

    As to why it's a difficult research topic, a lot of that has to do with the language barrier and also with the fact that most of this development seems to have happened under the Communist regime in Russia. As with many things, there's the official version of the truth, and then there's what actually happened.

    For example, most official Communist histories of SAMBO refer to Anatoly Kharlampiev as the founder, but more recent (and possibly more objective) scholarship suggests that Kharlampiev was simply the most politically expedient person to credit as the founder.

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