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  1. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Apr 2005
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    4,774

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 11:31am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What sort of standardization do you have in mind?
  2. EricH is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2004
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    199

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 11:39am


     Style: systema/RMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally I love the lack of standardization.
  3. theotherserge is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Oct 2007
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    North of San Francisco
    Posts
    4,458

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 1:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: sambo/crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like "Open Classroom" elementary school? LOL!

    j/k
  4. Jfeygin is offline

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    Jul 2008
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    9

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 2:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Systema

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    What sort of standardization do you have in mind?
    my understanding is that Kadachnikov teaches basic bio mechanics and the wedge principle and drills in a couple of positions for you to use as you start the motion.
  5. D Dempsey is offline
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    Monkey Knife Fight!

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    Jan 2005
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    Dayton, Ohio
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    725

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 2:56pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jfeygin
    Thanks SF goon, that last part is why I think systema has a bad rep, it tends to be very difficult for beginners who are not natural fighters. This is why I wish Kadachnikov was teaching in the states, he has a bit more of core curriculum to his system.
    I highly doubt Kadochnikov will ever teach in the United States, besides the fact that he is a Stalinist and dislikes the U.S., I doubt he would ever be able to obtain a VISA. I believe he is currently teaching and living in the Ukraine as he was pretty much run out of his original school in Krasondor.
    My own teacher Matt Powell train with Kadochnikov and his top students in Russia and has professed that Kadochnikov's two top students were better even than Mr. K. From what I've hear from other sources Mr. K has recently grafted a made up history on to his style making it more esoteric than it already was.
    Honestly if you wanted to see and overview of what Kadochnikov system like your best bet is to get in contact with Matt Powell www.pramek.org (I'm the handsome devil who is getting his head twisted around on the main page). What he teaches it pretty straight forward and people pick it up pretty quick. I don't know what part of the country you live in but it might be worth checking out.
  6. SFGOON is offline
    SFGOON's Avatar

    and humble, too!

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    Nov 2005
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    Seattle, WA
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 3:10pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EricH
    Personally I love the lack of standardization.

    Don't get me wrong, I do too, but a lot of the newer guys seem "lost" a lot of the time. I remember this one guy who spazzed out on me while we were doing slow/compliant drills and threw me into a wrestling cradle with a face that said "I just stuck my finger into a light socket!" It jarred me out of my focus so suddenly that I started laughing hysterically. He gawked at me for a second or two as I was cackling with my own knee in my throat, then sheepishly let me go.

    To guys like him, what we do makes little sense at first. It's not very nice to expect people like him to take to learn to swim in "the deep end." It's a shame too - he seemed to need the training really bad, but he didn't come back after that class.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
    Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Apr 2005
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 3:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I hear you. IMO it's growing pains; my theory is that Systema was originally intended for people with extensive prior training in other styles, or as a long-term commitment. There isn't a lot of provision in there for complete beginners who are probably coming in with the straightforward desire to learn self defense.

    I really think it would help if Systema people could articulate how the training works in a way that's understandable to "outsiders". Since I've been training regularly at one school, I've seen a bunch of people become baffled after taking a single class and never come back. IMO if the instructor(s) had taken the time to explain *why* certain exercises are done, many of these folks would now be getting a lot out of the training.
  8. D Dempsey is offline
    D Dempsey's Avatar

    Monkey Knife Fight!

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    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dayton, Ohio
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    725

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 4:21pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    I hear you. IMO it's growing pains; my theory is that Systema was originally intended for people with extensive prior training in other styles, or as a long-term commitment. There isn't a lot of provision in there for complete beginners who are probably coming in with the straightforward desire to learn self defense.
    You statement stands in stark contrast to what I have been told by Scott Anderson who has done extensive research on Spiridinov. Fortunately it was all posted online at worldwidegrappling.com so I'll provide the link, for reference sake I post over there as Thundercleese.
    http://www.worldwidegrappling.com/gr...ead.php?t=2000

    From what I gather based on that exchange is that Spiridinov had always intended for his style to be taught as a combative martial art with no prior training necessary. It also seems that the main source for his style was a German style of Jujitsu. It is a pretty good read and Scott addresses some of the finer points of it's history.
  9. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Apr 2005
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    4,774

    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 4:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps the founders of Systema ran with a particular sub-set of SAMOZ drills/concepts and elaborated them into a new pedagogical approach. There was obviously a major shift in emphasis at some point, away from the kata/waza of jujitsu and towards improvisation.

    Thanks for the link.
  10. SFGOON is offline
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    and humble, too!

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    Seattle, WA
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    Posted On:
    8/26/2008 5:08pm


     Style: Systema, BJJ, Arrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm with DLDR on this one. I can still remember my first day of Karate as a child. I was taught the horse stance, the fighting stance, and the reverse punch. I can say with absolute certainty that if the instructor had made us do placement and sensitivity drills I would have been mad as **** and cried in the car on the way home.

    Until you have experienced those odd moments where you break someone's jaw with a lazy hook, choke on your own nerves and completely lose control of a fight, and begin to realize the futility of "proper form," you will not appreciate systema.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
    Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:

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