Final Report: Systema-

**DJR** · Posted On: 7/04/2006 2:59pm

Originally Posted by Omega

Modern SAMBO has 5 schools of thought in the modern era. Sport, Combat, self-defense, freestlye, and combat sport. The wikipedia entry is fairly correct in it's description.

Interesting - I didn't know that. If that was combat Sambo those Spetsnaz trainees were doing in the clip I posted, it looked way more practical and realistic than any of the Systema clips I've seen posted here.

I really can't imagine why the Russian military would bother with something as eccentric as "Systema" if they already have a practical, tested and rationally structured training system like combat sambo already...

**systemavin** · Posted On: 7/04/2006 5:13pm

Originally Posted by Omega

:bsflag: No different out comes systemavin. The reactions we got when he hit people in the nerve clusters were exactly what you would expect. Sure the punches are different than boxing, I never said they were similiar to boxing. Closer to Tai Chi, very solid base. The punching stretegy tries to hit where a person is least expecting it. These attacks are sometimes subtle, like an elbow rolling into the shoulder and a hand capitilzing on the next suddent movement or hitting where they least expect again hoping the person will react a specific way. Think Kenpo and you'll understand this principal. We dubbed it sucker punching live with it. What we found out is that only pre programmed students trying to go with the flow of the punches would ever react that way, not a persistant fighting resisting opponent, or an opponent who hasn't been trained to react that way. Such is the poison most self-defense falls under. It's still bullshit
bullshit
Dude you're a sheep

[quotes]Find a partner, hit him for 2 mins on the body continously, with no rest inbetween the exercises and see how he copes. [/quotes] yeah, it's called boxing training

realistic? who fucking hits like that then

STFU you are a officially a fucking moron. That's how that kid broke his hand while sparring me. How's that for fucking results.

Omega, why do always resort to abuse! The general consensus is that you are a respected martial artist on here. No problem with that. Fact boxers are known for the power that they produce in their stikes and train to deal with strikes, including body shots. I am a respected boxer, so I think I entitled to an opinion on strikes. Or are you saying that boxing and boxers are bulshido? Fact, whether you like the system, etc. The punches are very effective, it is like nothing that I have experienced before. Trust me, I was prepared and it made no difference, I was not prepared to deal with the strikes that I received. I tried all the tricks that I know, exhaling, etc. It made no difference. That is the point, its understanable that you or others do not understand what you see on the DVDS. Why am I a moran, I have fought for real in and out of the gym. I have knocked out guys for real and not even broken sweat, most of it not my fault. I respect other martial arts, but dont start having a go at boxers, just because they have experinced of something that you do not. What is the problem with the drill, its not a boxing drill, but a systema drill. However I am confident that decent boxers any where would undestand the drill and the benefits.

**mrblackmagic** · Posted On: 7/04/2006 5:42pm

Dude?

**marcdscott** · Posted On: 7/04/2006 7:28pm

Quick note: Systema is not the offical martial art of the Russian Special Forces, each base commander can have them train in whatever he wants, sometimes that means Karate, sometimes that means Judo, sometimes Sambo and apparently Systema as well.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 7/04/2006 10:26pm

Originally Posted by systemavin

... [snip]. Fact boxers are known for the power that they produce in their stikes and train to deal with strikes, including body shots. I am a respected boxer, so I think I entitled to an opinion on strikes. Or are you saying that boxing and boxers are bulshido? Fact, whether you like the system, etc. The punches are very effective, it is like nothing that I have experienced before. Trust me, I was prepared and it made no difference, I was not prepared to deal with the strikes that I received. I tried all the tricks that I know, exhaling, etc. It made no difference. That is the point, its understanable that you or others do not understand what you see on the DVDS.... [snip]

You see this is why I am checking out Systema . I want to be a badass superhero russian who can out box boxers and hit people so hard the force of the blow bounces around inside and causes massive internal damage .

..........

**RobG** · Posted On: 7/04/2006 10:32pm

hey kungy..get over it! Save the bandwidth, dorkwad..
With about 5 weeks to do -you stillwont face me- one on one - and post foootage of the 'uselessness' of systema as a viable martial method. To date -no Pm with exacting meeting details..which I find very odd. IF I am such a liar or whatever you continue to spew on this site...why have YOU ducked every damn invite to meet, trade in full, hard real time?

Ooo, I forgot....your a fuckin cyber warrior - not willing to lay it on the line in real time! Sorry - forgot that frickin fact. You bait and run, cunty. Its very evident to all who read our exchanges -that you wont man up to your opinions of systema...its really much easier to suck off and ride Omegas jock and his opinions...have fun, son. Yer a frickin ***** boy..just accept it-- - get over it and accept that you are a coward and that "I am the one that Kungfools fears". I would realy enjoy posting footage - of you becoming my lil handpuppet..and you fear that..all words/noballs at all.
*****
Omega - with all due respect - I due regret that no one who actually has experience in systema ever met with your research group. You only had the vids to work with- and I hate all vids. You are MMA - correct? And only had a few vids to work with. i respect your postings of whatever you find negative or postive about systema. I also feel that if we were not seperated by the coasts..maybe your evaluation might be a bit different. Overall - I have no problem with you project. Did not expect a glowing revue of any dvd material -- your investigation was pretty much what I expected..but, still - very well stated.
*****
In closing - the fact remains that the dickwad - the village fools - Kungy - just ducks a chance to become recorded and famous here. And Kungy -thats a fact that is totally without dispute. 5 weeks before I go to the Islands - and none who have followed this systema stuff threads - can understand why you keep denying yourself to be recorded. Have you no faith in SCARS? Have you nothing but yer words?
*****
I am pretty much out of this forum....but will keep a countdown.
Sorta like the Sylvia Brown/Randi countdown. Omega can investigate -as others can - but real dealing is ducked ONLY by the village ubertroll = 'Kungfools'.
5 weeks counting down, Fools. back yer words up - or STFU as regards my name.

Put the insults aside..and lets just do this thing and post it from both sides - no Mc-throwdown...NHB for us both.
Posted right here..for ALL to see!

**BumFu** · Posted On: 7/05/2006 1:04am

Originally Posted by systemavin

That is the point, its understanable that you or others do not understand what you see on the DVDS.

That argument would hold more water had the top Systema guy in the U.S. not refused to show how the moves are done.

Why am I a moran

Cuz you can't spell moron.:icon_puke

**BumFu** · Posted On: 7/05/2006 1:30am

Originally Posted by RobG

hey kungy..get over it! Save the bandwidth, dorkwad..
With about 5 weeks to do -you stillwont face me- one on one - and post foootage of the 'uselessness' of systema as a viable martial method.

If you really want to redeem Systema you're gonna have to do more than fight Kungfoolss. See if you can't talk Vlad or one of his top guys into fighting MMA.

-that you wont man up to your opinions of systema

Sure you're a mensan?

I due regret that no one who actually has experience in systema ever met with your research group. You only had the vids to work with

This was unfortunate and disappointing. Martin Wheeler refused to take part, so don't expect any sympathy for that argument.

I also feel that if we were not seperated by the coasts..maybe your evaluation might be a bit different.

K... the solution would have been to put a call in to your fellow Systema guys and urged them to go demonstrate the moves for the research team. FFS the #1 Systema in the US was invited but backed down. I saw this one coming from a long way away---"But you only had videos!"

I am pretty much out of this forum....but will keep a countdown.

If this means you're gonna be posting moronic rants here daily for the next 5 weeks please tell me now so I can put you on my ignore list.

Put the insults aside..and lets just do this thing and post it from both sides - no Mc-throwdown...NHB for us both.
Posted right here..for ALL to see!

Your wife will be grateful if you refrain from fighting during your vacation and you won't have to waste money on bail either.

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 7/05/2006 2:20am

Omega, why do always resort to abuse!

Always? No, just honest and you got me on a rant. You should be a bit more specific when doing your comparisons here. Not once have I compared this to boxing yet you decided to.

The general consensus is that you are a respected martial artist on here.

That's because I take a neutral pov on many things and try to be as fair as possible. I have a TMA background with actual street and ring experiance that has been documented. I was fair in my accessment of systema.

No problem with that. Fact boxers are known for the power that they produce in their stikes and train to deal with strikes, including body shots. I am a respected boxer, so I think I entitled to an opinion on strikes.

Fine, but by all means besides yourself who ever said that systema punches like boxers?

Fact, whether you like the system, etc. The punches are very effective, it is like nothing that I have experienced before.

And you need to get out more. Do I think that you can generate some serious power with systema, sure. Is there anything mysterious about the way they punch? No, I have too much experiance in this. I saw the way they punched and did it to elicit the reaction they needed. Sorry just because you've never experianced it doesn't mean I haven't.

Trust me, I was prepared and it made no difference, I was not prepared to deal with the strikes that I received. I tried all the tricks that I know, exhaling, etc. It made no difference.

As I said before, sucker punched...let me explain. I saw the seminars as a person tried to compensate for shots, etc. Now, what we said was, if we had to just sit there and prepare for every shot coming in you would eventually be able to hit a spot we weren't ready for, catch a person off, one way or the other your body was going to collapse. Great, but none us agreed that we would just sit there and take punches like that. So what's your point. Eventually you would? Not according to these videos.

That is the point, its understanable that you or others do not understand what you see on the DVDS.

Who said we didn't understand? We knew exactly what was going on, and why people were reacting the way they did.

Why am I a moran, I have fought for real in and out of the gym. I have knocked out guys for real and not even broken sweat, most of it not my fault. I respect other martial arts, but dont start having a go at boxers, just because they have experinced of something that you do not. What is the problem with the drill, its not a boxing drill, but a systema drill. However I am confident that decent boxers any where would undestand the drill and the benefits.

Why are you a moron? Do you even understand what you're trying to say here. It sounds to me like you think I know nothing of boxing. Do you have any idea what my training is? What the **** is this idea about boxer understanding a drill or not understanding a drill. You really need to get your head screwed on correctly vin because your statements make no sense what so ever.

If you think I'm being harsh, that's fine, welcome to bullshido. Am I saying you're wasting time doing systema. No that's not what I'm saying. I think Systema has some solid stuff but nothing I haven't seen in many other arts. There is some serious bullshit here and if you can't see it then there's use in talking about it. 'punches that make people stronger', what a load of ****. It's psychological at best.

This is an actual exercise from the DVD-

As a person goes to hit you on your chin, roll you chin with the punch tilting your head into the punch. Allow the energy to create a wave to your opposite shoulder and ram your shoulder into the fist, essentially jamming the fist.

Problem one, can a person really train their chin to roll with it that fast for the body to react that way.

Problem two, what about the nerve cluster in the inner deltoid?

Problem three, who punches like that, most people trained to throw a straight punch only penetrate 2 to 3 inches past the initial point of contact.

These are the things we were presented with. You tell us what we were to make of that. By all means we spent nearly 3 solid weeks on stuff like this. Kobayashi sent me videos, and it would've been better if we hadn't seen them. I was ready to write an okay review before that. After that though the answer was no. I could not give systema a decent thumbs up. There's way too much bullshit in the whole thing for me to do so. I've honestly seen worse. There's alway George Dillman, Yellow Bamboo, ATA and WTF Taekwondo, Chris Bannon but to tell you the truth, Phil Elmore's book gave out better advice than this.

**systemavin** · Posted On: 7/05/2006 2:37am

I think we at last have got somewhere. There is some good stuff in the system. The posts on here have made people more aware of the system, even the negative ones. The facts remain, that most people on here couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag. The system is no different to other arts, it will go the same way. But there are some good people doing it to compliment their own training, there are idiots, cultists,everywhere? Thats their problem not mine. Respect to all good martial artists everywhere. Im done on here, I have made my point.