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  1. #11
    Meager's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bores the **** out of me, too. Unfortunately SD pays the bills. It's what people want.

  2. #12
    Meager's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Rolling around with your buddies mimicking what you've seen on UFC deserves to be mocked as crappling.

    Bringing in an accomplished instructor to instruct you in a range of combat that you've neglected is necessary, and I dare you to find someone who's not an idiot derinding it.

  3. #13

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For what its worth, it was the Gracies, not BJJ that "revolutionized" the modern martial arts world. And that was thanks to a good system, and their control of the UFC and carefully chosen competitors in the first rounds. Credit does need to be given to them for this. But there is little question that the early UFC's were definitely stacked to ensure that Royce would most likely win. That doesn't take away from BJJ's dominance. But to claim that they were objective or that Royce fought any comperable grapplers (with the possible exception of Severn) is going a little far. They have a great product and made the right steps at the right time -- and credit should be given for that.

    As far as the overall quality of BJJ schools, there's no question that things have stayed really good. Though, sadly, I'd give it a few decades and I expect that much of BJJ will be mired in the same mess as other martial arts. Especially as the Gracie family fractures and moves in different directions.

    - Matt
    Last edited by Matt Bernius; 6/30/2006 10:08pm at .
    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
    Kali, & what ever works
    Renaissance Martial Arts
    Rochester, NY

  4. #14

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I deleted my post but since you responded to it, it looks a bit strange on its own.

    Meager posted.
    I think one of the best things about BJJ is it's willingnes to steal liberally from whatever works (sambo/wrestling/even catch) instead of getting all hung up on lineage.
    Just to play the devil's advocate. For BJJers, the willingness to steal liberally from whatever works is a virtue. But if some other style did the same thing with BJJ techniques, it is either mocked as crappling (TMAs) or criticized as not giving credit where it is due (alluding the Rorion's website where he stated that all grappling styles came from Gracie Jiu Jitsu (see Whorion Appreciation Thread)).

    Meager responded.
    Rolling around with your buddies mimicking what you've seen on UFC deserves to be mocked as crappling. Bringing in an accomplished instructor to instruct you in a range of combat that you've neglected is necessary, and I dare you to find someone who's not an idiot derinding it.
    I certainly am not deriding it. In fact, it is what keeps BJJ effective. There is no disagreement here. I am just noting that some BJJers mocking of other arts adaptation of some of its techniques can come across the wrong way.
    Last edited by Firebrand; 6/30/2006 10:27pm at .

  5. #15

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    Bores the **** out of me, too. Unfortunately SD pays the bills. It's what people want.
    I've sprained my eyes from rolling them whenever anyone says "in the street".

  6. #16

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Meager
    My BJJ/MT school works throws (not as much as I'd like though), striking, self-defense (too much for me, I prefer sport MA), weapons (again, I'm not a fan, but we do stick/knife), leg locks and no gi.

    To be fair I think the whole style thing is gay. I really don't give a **** what you train as long as you're training realistically with proper instruction. I think one of the best things about BJJ is it's willingnes to steal liberally from whatever works (sambo/wrestling/even catch) instead of getting all hung up on lineage.
    And you're saying the other schools aren't? (BTW folks if you haven't caught on, and some of you haven't, I be playing a little Devil's advocate part myself). No, instead of giving them the kudos they deserve we brand them as crapplers. I have bjj guys train with me all the time and they love the fact I go over self-defense, and throws more than their school. They wonder where I get some of my 'sweeps' I tell them logic.

  7. #17

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BJJ, and the UFC especially, saved American martial arts. It started the idea that MAists should have to prove the bullshit claims they were spreading.

    This was not a problem in some other countries from what I have heard. There are badasses in Japan that admit that BJJ pushed much of the grappling to the next level. No shame in that.

    It is not the end all but it does deserve a lot of respect.

    I personally think that it has brought out the revival of Pankraton by way of MMA and began an explosion of subgrappling events. Anybody who doesn't nutride BJJ a little for changing martial arts doesn't appreciate where they would be without it........

    That being said, the Gracies are full of ****........Thank God their relationship with grappling is better than their relationship with the truth.

  8. #18

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** all of you!!!!!!!!

    UFC, The Gracies and BJJ pissed me off!!!!


    I used to choke every fucker out and throw their asses, now everybody knows those fucking maneuvers. I hate them I hate them I hate them.

  9. #19
    PointyShinyBurn's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    For what its worth, it was the Gracies, not BJJ that "revolutionized" the modern martial arts world. And that was thanks to a good system, and their control of the UFC and carefully chosen competitors in the first rounds. Credit does need to be given to them for this. But there is little question that the early UFC's were definitely stacked to ensure that Royce would most likely win. That doesn't take away from BJJ's dominance. But to claim that they were objective or that Royce fought any comperable grapplers (with the possible exception of Severn) is going a little far. They have a great product and made the right steps at the right time -- and credit should be given for that.
    I've always found this arguement profoundly unconvincing. In what way were they stacked precisely?

    For UFC 1 they got a grappler from the only other MMA promotion in the world. Guys like Pardoel and Lenninger were highly accomplished grapplers. Where are the statements from SAMBO specialists that they tried to sign up and were turned away?

  10. #20

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    I think the main thing to keep in mind is that if it weren't for BJJ and the Gracie family specifically, the Martial Arts would be in a much worse state than they are today.

    So if people were training grappling properly before Royce forcibly crammed the idea down everyone's throat, more power to them. But they were definitely in the minority, and not representative of the state of Martial Arts in the English speaking world at the time of UFC1.

    The minority ? Not so.

    There where still loads of good martial arts to train in before Brazilian Jiu Jutsu made it big on the scene.As far as grappling goes there was lots of Judo and Greco Roman/Freestyle wresltling for one. As far as striking goes there was still boxing,muay thai, full contact karate etc. The same as today.

    Brazilian Jiu Jutsu made everyone realise how important groundfighting is. But BJJ contains nothing new and those who where already sold on grappling knew they where on a good thing.

    The MOST important thing to remember is that BJJ does not have a copyright on grappling and self defense like people here advocate it does. Other grappling arts like Judo/wrestling/Sambo trained well can be just as effective.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!

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