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  1. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 5:48am

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    FM 3-25-150 partially BS?

    I'm wondering if some of the contents of said Field Manual (3-25-150 US Army Combatives) can be considered with the Bullshido.

    Let's see, for instance:

    In Chapter 8, Section II, can be read


    (5) Unarmed Defense Against Low No. 5 Angle of Attack. (Figure 8-20). The attacker thrusts the bayonet at the stomach of the defender (Step 1). The defender shifts his body to the side to avoid the attack and to gouge the eyes of the attacker (Step 2). The defender's free hand maintains control of and strips the weapon from the attacker as he is driven backward with the eye gouge (Step 3).


    As this technique is very like to this
    aikido one, that makes the army combatives manual BS by default, isn't it?

    As i don't have at this moment any clip to show how this other:
    (2) Unarmed Defense Against No. 2 Angle of Attack (Figure 8-17). The attacker makes a diagonal slash along the No. 2 angle of attack (Step 1). Again, the defender waits until he is sure of the attack before moving. The defender then moves to the outside of the attacker and counterattacks with a thumb jab into the right armpit (Step 2). He receives the momentum of the attacking weapon and controls it with his free hand. He uses the attacker's momentum against him by pulling the weapon in the direction it is going with one hand and pushing with his thumb of the other hand (Step 3). The attacker is completely off balance, and the defender can gain control of the weapon.


    is a typical aikido kokyu nage, i'll stop here by now. Maybe later i can upload some things.

    BTW, the knife defense techniques at the same chapter deserve some comments by the FMA guys here. :)
  2. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 5:52am

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    Yes we know some of the things in there aren't great and they are being reevaluated. If you knew what goes in to actually CHANGING established FMs you'd understand. Its a good thing that Mr Larsen (SFC ret.) got the changes in that he did.
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  3. DCS is online now
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 5:57am

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    The sense of humour of Lord Asia always amazes me.

    On a more serious note: I know these parts of the FM are old, but i'm not sure about the time they were included and the hows and whys they were included. Could you ellaborate a bit about the evolution of combatives FMs.
  4. Muqatil is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 7:23am


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    I think those items were left over from the Vietnam era combatives. You should see the previous version of the FM.
  5. mrblackmagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 7:39am

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    I guess military CQC should have leeway to be joke considering less than 3% of kills are within range to do it.

    Isn't L.I.N.E. some good stuff?
    Last edited by mrblackmagic; 6/29/2006 7:43am at .
  6. Matt Bernius is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 9:59am

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    I won't comment about the second one. But the first isn't *that* bad. The basic idea in any weapons defense is get off the line of attack and drive through the body. That's happening in that case. It isn't the best way necessarily of doing it (ie. just turning to the side), but the fundemental concept there isn't too far off.

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  7. TonyM is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 10:16am


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    I could be wrong but I don't recognise that as being from FM 21-150 Dec. 30, 1970. That leaves 1942, 1963 and 2002 if I'm not mistaken. At any rate it looks silly.
  8. Matt Bernius is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 10:57am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's from 2002.

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  9. mrblackmagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 11:03am

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    Who wrote the 1942? Was it Applegate?
  10. Happycrow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/29/2006 11:08am


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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Bernius
    I won't comment about the second one. But the first isn't *that* bad. The basic idea in any weapons defense is get off the line of attack and drive through the body.
    Actually, the only problem I can see is that they showed one of the more difficult variants. Keep the thumb vertical, and it's a beginner's technique. Plus, the angle of torque you put on his head makes the strip much easier.
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