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  1. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 9:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only guy I know who could make Aikido work was 7' / 260lbs, so no.
  2. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 9:54pm

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     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkrazeternal
    yeah that's true. do you think it has any usefulness though?

    In it present condiiton, no. The point of Aikido orginally, was that Ueshiba and his students could kill you, but using Aikido they choose not to. Without becoming a badass first, you don't choose anything, and just end up doing fluff.
  3. jkrazeternal is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 9:56pm


     Style: San da, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    The only guy I know who could make Aikido work was 7' / 260lbs, so no.
    haha! Do any of you guys have any experience in it? I visited an Aikido dojo once and they were throwing eachother without touching. I really didn't get that.................
  4. jkrazeternal is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 9:59pm


     Style: San da, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    In it present condiiton, no. The point of Aikido orginally, was that Ueshiba and his students could kill you, but using Aikido they choose not to. Without becoming a badass first, you don't choose anything, and just end up doing fluff.
    Was Ueshiba as good as they say?
  5. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 10:01pm

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     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkrazeternal
    haha! Do any of you guys have any experience in it? I visited an Aikido dojo once and they were throwing eachother without touching. I really didn't get that.................

    I did Aikido for a bit. The school I was doing BJJ at had other classes including an Aikido class right before BJJ. Not one god damn thing could be applied for real. It was really sad. I stopped going afte ra few months. Its the only thing I ever did that was worse then the Bujinkan. (Well, That and Washin Ryu Karate)
  6. NasalInfection is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 10:01pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think pl4zm4 has that response as an automated reply.

    Aikido with sparring is what we do in Tomiki Aikido, there is a rule and point system in place.

    In some cases it does put you in situations similar to Judo. Tomiki did not want Judo in the Aikido competitions as those are seperate techniques from the Daito-Ryu (if I recall correctly), and while they are complementary arts, they are still different and unique.

    Aikido sparring according to Tomiki rules consists of one person attacking with a fake knife (this is part of the competition NOT realistic knife defense) and each killing blow between shoulders and chest is 1 point. A killing blow must consist of forward motion and straight strike, slashes do not count. The unarmed individual can use any of the basic 17 techniques from the Tomiki style to counter the attacks (with the ultimate goal being throw the attacker). Ippons are 4 points, Waziari's are 2 points.

    There is no sweeping, tripping in Aikido tournaments, nor groundwork or suicide throws. The intent being to keep Aikido tournaments as Aikido, and NOT Judo.

    So, enough beating around the bush, what does it look like? Attacker and defender like to keep range since the attacker needs the hip motion for a strike to count and the defender wants momentum. When the attacker does strike, if the defender performs proper taisabaki (getting out of the way), the final position depends on what happens. Sometimes the attacker overextends and the defender has the arm at range, sometimes the defender will move in close and get a russian 2 on 1 grip (I think I am describing it properly). Anything can happen, just like any competition.

    Tomiki has been said to have mentioned that "Aikido is Judo at arm's length". (Tomiki was one of Kano's top students sent to study with Ueshiba for those unaware of the history). As such there is more distance, balance breaking, creation of energy, and superior timing than clinching, sweeping, hip bumping, etc...

    I just wish I had Judo near me to complent my style.

    Disclaimer: I am still relatively new to the art, but I enjoy it immensely. I yield information off the top of my head, and as such there might be minor (or glaring) inaccuracies. I might not also be describing finer points of the art that a higher belt would be able to attest too.
  7. Plasma is online now
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    Bullshido's Greatest Ninja

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 10:03pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: JJJ/Judo[Nidan] BJJ[Blue]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkrazeternal
    Was Ueshiba as good as they say?
    Short answer yes.

    Ueshiba school was literally called Hell Training Hall and had a rep and beating people senselss with his fists and throwing people through the floor. Unforunately, the Aikidoka today think they can be that good without training like him, or even worse, they think cause he was good, they are good by association.
  8. jkrazeternal is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 10:05pm


     Style: San da, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by NasalInfection
    I think pl4zm4 has that response as an automated reply.

    Aikido with sparring is what we do in Tomiki Aikido, there is a rule and point system in place.

    In some cases it does put you in situations similar to Judo. Tomiki did not want Judo in the Aikido competitions as those are seperate techniques from the Daito-Ryu (if I recall correctly), and while they are complementary arts, they are still different and unique.

    Aikido sparring according to Tomiki rules consists of one person attacking with a fake knife (this is part of the competition NOT realistic knife defense) and each killing blow between shoulders and chest is 1 point. A killing blow must consist of forward motion and straight strike, slashes do not count. The unarmed individual can use any of the basic 17 techniques from the Tomiki style to counter the attacks (with the ultimate goal being throw the attacker). Ippons are 4 points, Waziari's are 2 points.

    There is no sweeping, tripping in Aikido tournaments, nor groundwork or suicide throws. The intent being to keep Aikido tournaments as Aikido, and NOT Judo.

    So, enough beating around the bush, what does it look like? Attacker and defender like to keep range since the attacker needs the hip motion for a strike to count and the defender wants momentum. When the attacker does strike, if the defender performs proper taisabaki (getting out of the way), the final position depends on what happens. Sometimes the attacker overextends and the defender has the arm at range, sometimes the defender will move in close and get a russian 2 on 1 grip (I think I am describing it properly). Anything can happen, just like any competition.

    Tomiki has been said to have mentioned that "Aikido is Judo at arm's length". (Tomiki was one of Kano's top students sent to study with Ueshiba for those unaware of the history). As such there is more distance, balance breaking, creation of energy, and superior timing than clinching, sweeping, hip bumping, etc...

    I just wish I had Judo near me to complent my style.

    Disclaimer: I am still relatively new to the art, but I enjoy it immensely. I yield information off the top of my head, and as such there might be minor (or glaring) inaccuracies. I might not also be describing finer points of the art that a higher belt would be able to attest too.
    What happens if someone that practices Arnis shows up at a Tomiki competition?
  9. NasalInfection is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 10:07pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Additional notes: While you might not always have momentum, getting the proper balance break does the trick as well. Sometimes a shoulder roll before a Gyaku is enough to let the technique roll with ease. If caught in a clinch range, picking up your feet quickly (less than inch off ground, enough for a body drop) is enough to get some kazushi to capitalize on.

    Aikido is effective, but you cannot always count on your attacker giving you what is needed to make a move work. You need to be able to create an opening, and be fast in transitioning between techniques to capitalize on it.
  10. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2006 10:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jkrazeternal
    What happens if someone that practices Arnis shows up at a Tomiki competition?
    You are limited to the 17 basic techniques. Kenji Tomiki implimented it because his students were using judo instead of aikido
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