Aikido with sparring

**Fighting Cephalopod** · Posted On: 6/26/2006 12:04am

Originally Posted by pazman

Does your submission wrestling game not have a big, boxing-shaped hole in it?

Yes, which is why I train boxing. If I /only/ trained boxing, my game would have a big, grappling shaped hole in it. If I only trained judo, I would also have a big, boxing-shaped hole in my game, but I have a hard time conceiving of a situation which would reveal me to have a big, Aikido-shaped hole in my game.

**GRAB MY WRIST** · Posted On: 6/26/2006 12:38am

Originally Posted by fatherdog

Yes, which is why I train boxing. If I /only/ trained boxing, my game would have a big, grappling shaped hole in it. If I only trained judo, I would also have a big, boxing-shaped hole in my game, but I have a hard time conceiving of a situation which would reveal me to have a big, Aikido-shaped hole in my game.

Your situation will have a big, aikido-shaped hole if your opponent is a rubber tanto wielding magic pant wearing bad-ass.

GMW

**DCS** · Posted On: 6/26/2006 3:57am

Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST

Your situation will have a big, aikido-shaped hole if your opponent is a rubber tanto wielding magic pant wearing bad-ass.

GMW

Shodothugs don't wear magic pants :new_silly

**pazman** · Posted On: 6/28/2006 2:18am

Originally Posted by fatherdog

Yes, which is why I train boxing. If I /only/ trained boxing, my game would have a big, grappling shaped hole in it. If I only trained judo, I would also have a big, boxing-shaped hole in my game, but I have a hard time conceiving of a situation which would reveal me to have a big, Aikido-shaped hole in my game.

Okay, we're on the same page then...and I will concede that other arts such as judo or boxing are much more readily aplicapable and intuitive than Aikido. If a person wanted to learn how to "fight" I would send him first to my Muay Thai gym.

Aikido deals specifically with intial, dedicated attacks...once you've clinched up or you are trading blows, your chance to do aikido is finished, so to speak. Tanto randori let's us train this very specific aspect of fighting.

It could also be argued that Shodokan is probably one of the few styles that trains knife defense in an alive manner, even though it wasn't instially developed as a knife defense. The only other that I know of is the previously mentioned STAB program.

**NasalInfection** · Posted On: 6/28/2006 7:49am

pazman, with all due respect I believe calling Tanto Randori knife defense is like calling dodging water balloons grenade defense. The randori allows for lack of control of the knife hand, doesn't account for slashes, punches, kicks, etc...

Tanto Randori is fantastic as a means to practice Aikido against a fully resisting opponent, but it is NOT knife defense and calling it as such helps degrade the true purpose in the eyes of newcomers. First impressions I have seen upon viewing Tanto Randori is usually "Is this some sort of crappy knife defense?". Reinforcing that is not a good idea, IMHO.

**Fitz** · Posted On: 6/28/2006 1:23pm

Originally Posted by NasalInfection

pazman, with all due respect I believe calling Tanto Randori knife defense is like calling dodging water balloons grenade defense. The randori allows for lack of control of the knife hand, doesn't account for slashes, punches, kicks, etc...

Yeah, it isn't exactly the most effective knife defense method in the world. The knife handling is decidedly simpler then what you are likely to encounter in a contemporary setting being based off of how one traditionally used a tanto (a 12 inch+ knife using lots of forward thrust power to pierce layered silk clothing). It's certainly better then no training at all for dealing with knives but I wouldn't rely upon skills gained in that setting to save me in an actual knife encounter.

If you want a lesson in where the holes in tanto randori are for knife fighting find someone handy with contemporary knife fighting or a FMA practitioner and have a friendly go of things. See how well things work in that situation.

**FictionPimp** · Posted On: 6/28/2006 1:26pm

To really test knife fighting, give your friend a magic marker, tell him sometime in the next year to attack you with it.

**NasalInfection** · Posted On: 6/28/2006 1:27pm

There is knife defense or there isn't. Just like your forearms or midsection are slit open or they aren't. There is NO focus on knife control, no concerns over slashing, nothing that even resembles the basics of knife defense incorporated in Tanto Randori.

The only similarity is the use of a rubber knife to simulate an attack, period.