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  1. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    7/17/2006 1:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just a further note:


    I spent two hours yesterday in a dimly lit, 130 degrees (F) tempurature, attic crawl space - all the while kneeling, crawling, hunching, squating, and duck walking.

    Aside from losing 9% of my bodyweight (interesting what sweat will do when you are working on live knob and tube wiring) and nearly falling through the ceiling to the floor below, I gave nary a thought to my knee aside from the distracting snap crackle and pop of crepitus.

    My knee was a little sore this morning - mostly along the patellar tendon incision. It was probably just more scar tissue breaking up because it's fine this afternoon already.

    After this, I'm officially upgrading my surgery outcome rating from a B+ to an A-. If the damn crepitus just would shut up, I'd give it an even better rating.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  2. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 1:42pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I had a full reconstruction of my ACL, and some meniscal cartilage removed, nearly 2 weeks ago.


    hosted by http://www.flickr.com

    Hopefully YrKoon's months of pain and suffering are a worst-case scenario, the worst symptom I've had so far is cabin fever from being stuck at home.

    I found an hour-long Youtube vid of an identical operation here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DkdOQSHYkY

    Might be of interest to anyone getting surgery soon.

    In my case the surgeon used tendon tissue from my hamstring tendon, and threaded and screwed it in in the usual way. Apparently all went well, no infections.

    The physios gave me a hefty brace with a hinge to stop the leg from bending more than 90 degrees, or from twisting. I'm not wearing it as much as I should (they recommended I SLEEP with the bloody thing but **** that, quite frankly). The wierdest thing is that there's a shitload of bruising and swelling around my ankle. WTF? they didn't even touch my ankle, as far as I know. But I phoned up the clinic and they said that was normal.

    I will update this thread if my leg needs amputating at any point, or indeed as I see fit.

    And to anyone who thinks state-run healthcare is ****, this was the view from my room:


    And this was my lunch:


    That's right. It came with doilies and a flower.
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 2:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    The physios gave me a hefty brace with a hinge to stop the leg from bending more than 90 degrees, or from twisting. I'm not wearing it as much as I should (they recommended I SLEEP with the bloody thing but **** that, quite frankly).

    Before it heals in place within 8 weeks or so, one eighth of an inch is how far the graft has to pull out of its screw tack before the graft will fail.

    One eight of an inch! (3 millmetres) - That's all.

    Wear the brace you moron!
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  4. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2007 2:07pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright Dad. It's back on.
  5. Student is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2007 5:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I tore my acl/mcl & meniscus just about 7 months ago and had surgery about 5 months ago (cadaver graft and meniscus trim).

    At just about 5 months I have already been given the OK from my doctor to start all light training again (including BJJ - I just have to be smart). Currently my knee feels great - my strength in the injured leg is closing in at close to 80% of my non-injured leg (once I reached 70% I was given the go ahead to start pivoting movements again). I don't plan on doing any aggresive training until I am closer to the 12 month mark (or maybe even beyond - I don't feel like going through this again!)

    I won't kid you and say it has been easy but it's nothing like what I read in some of the posts above (Sounds like those were from years ago and I know things have come along way - both in the surgery and the PT - for example the largest scar I have is about 1/4 inch long) - for me it's been a ton of rehab and I expect to continue rehab exercises for a long time (some exercises I assume for life).

    Good luck to anyone going through this - it's not fun, and it takes a while, but the end results should be worth it.

    PS - Here is a great forum if you want to learn alot more about this or just read diaries of peoples recoveries -> http://www.kneeguru.co.uk/KNEEtalk/index.php
    Last edited by Student; 12/05/2007 5:17pm at .
  6. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2007 6:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Student
    ... for example the largest scar I have is about 1/4 inch long) - for me it's been a ton of rehab and I expect to continue rehab exercises for a long time (some exercises I assume for life).
    For a cadaver graft, the major scar is on the cadaver. :smile:

    Cadaver grafts have the advantage of greatly reduced rehab problems related to harvesting a portion of a person's own patella, hamstring, or quadriceps tendon for the graft. The disadvantage is a cadaver graft carries a much higher possibility of infection (including potentially fatal hepatitis and HIV) and and graft failure. The cadaver graft is also much more expensive due to the cost of procuring a donor.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  7. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2007 6:57pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    For a cadaver graft, the major scar is on the cadaver. :smile:

    I was wondering about this weeny scar thing. Was my surgeon a bit ****? what's that inch-long monster below my knee?
    Then i remembered... that's where they pulled out a piece of my hamstring! The other 3 scars are less than a quarter inch. I didn't think cadaver grafts were done so often nowadays. To be honest I'm happier that it's a piece of me they've screwed into my knee.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2007 7:13pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    I was wondering about this weeny scar thing. Was my surgeon a bit ****? what's that inch-long monster below my knee?
    Then i remembered... that's where they pulled out a piece of my hamstring! The other 3 scars are less than a quarter inch. I didn't think cadaver grafts were done so often nowadays. To be honest I'm happier that it's a piece of me they've screwed into my knee.

    The scar where they took the graft from on my knee is pretty impressive. The doctor did the actual knee reconstruction through two tiny nicks (one for the camera, one for the surgical tools) above the knee towards the outside portion of my quadriceps. I've had zits which bled more than those two spots. He put tiny band-aids on them.

    BTW, the "screws" they used to tack the graft into place are non-metallic. They'll be absorbed by your body in about two to three years. Perhaps coincidentally, but that's right around the time frame Mother Nature decided I no longer needed the infrequent and random ice pick stabbings inside my knee. (Of course, now I'm contemplating whether I might eventually need surgery on my big toe, my other knee, and also a new hip, lol.)
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 12/05/2007 7:16pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  9. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2007 7:28pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dissolving screws?? You sure? They looked metal in the video. I'll have to ask the surgeon at my next post-op.

    A question on rehab: My physio claims she's done a load of research on the latest rehab techniques for ACL recon. She says leg raises are a no-no at least for now, because they put unnecessary strain on the graft. This tally with your experience Kagan/anyone?
  10. bob is offline
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    Prophet of Apathy

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2007 7:48pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RunningDog
    Dissolving screws?? You sure? They looked metal in the video. I'll have to ask the surgeon at my next post-op.

    A question on rehab: My physio claims she's done a load of research on the latest rehab techniques for ACL recon. She says leg raises are a no-no at least for now, because they put unnecessary strain on the graft. This tally with your experience Kagan/anyone?
    Unloaded straight leg raises are not generally verboten unless you have very poor quads control. Any kind of loaded leg extensions and raises will theoretically put a lot of shearing stress on the graft which is the kind of force it's least able to resist. Every surgeon differs in their reccomendation but usually they are absolutely forbidden for at least 6 months.

    The usual generalisation is closed chain exercises (ie exercises with your foot anchored on something like a squat or a leg press) are good, open chain (where your foot isn't anchored like in a seated leg extension) are bad.

    This is far from 'latest research' by the way. It's been standard practice for well over a decade. In fact, the theory behind it is somewhat in dispute at the moment, just to muddy the waters a bit more.
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