B.K. Frantzis, Yang Jwing Ming

**Bang!** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 1:58pm

Two guys whom I would like to trust, but just can’t, are B.K. Frantzis and good ole Yang Jwing Ming. Has anyone ever had in/direct experience training with either of these guys? In other words, is there anything to substantiate their many claims besides rhetoric?

And while we’re at it, are there any other IMA teachers whose credibility is suspect? SUSPECT is the key word. This isn’t the thread to bring up guys who can shoot Daoist flames from their asses. Let’s just talk about people with a veneer of authenticity.

Edited by - Repulsive Monkey on May 23 2003 14:56:14

**Balloonknot** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 2:03pm

From what I hear and read about Yan Jwing Ming, he is more concerned with selling his multitude of video's and books than he is teaching his Shaolin. Also, I hear he hardly ever teaches his classes and let's his students do it. I could be wrong but that's what I've heard from someone who attended the school there.

As far as BKF goes, he's just another CHI freak who thinks he has mystical powers (think yellow bamboo). BooYah!!

**Fighty McGee** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 2:10pm

My take on BK is that he may very well be a talented and respected Tai Chi/Bagua player, but all the examples of him being great at push hands could just be because he is HUGE.

Yang Jwing Ming at least shows lots of concrete examples of techniques along with the standard CMA mumbo jumbo (example of mumbo jumbo: tendon washing or any other esoteric practice that he may ramble for pages about while referring to the 5 elements). He also has the good sense to let other MAists that specialize in their particular art co-write or write their own books in his book line. He's exposing lots of MA, without declaring himself to be a master of all of it.

**Balloonknot** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 2:16pm

I find it hard to respect someone as a Taiji "master" or even an instructor if they are outright fat! Look at BKF!

KC Elbows · Posted On: 5/23/2003 2:24pm

yang Jwing Ming also has translated a lot of works into english. Look in any of his books, and you'll find traditional works somewhere in there translated. Which is a cool thing. Other than that, I don't know.

**Kensai** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 4:56pm

I know very little about the men, but I do have some of there books. I like BKF's book on the internal arts, but thats because he speaks well of O Sensei. I have found Jwing Mings books very informative and a great read.

**Skummer** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 5:21pm

I have all of Yang Jwing Ming's books on chin na, as well as his bagua and taichi books. The man has a deep understanding of what he does, and his variety of chin na is the most pain inducing of any I've encountered. However, his work, in my opinion, does not compare with Zhao Da Yuan's Practical Chin Na and the series of videos by Tim Cartmell based on Zhao's book.

BKF is, I think, a little off his noodle. In one of his books he says that bagua master Wang Shu Jin could break people's spines by bumping them with his rather large belly. I wonder if BKF believes that he can now do the same...?

- Skummer -

If you think you can speak about Tao, it is clear you don't know what you're talking about.
-Lao Tzu

**IndoChinese** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 5:42pm

"I have all of Yang Jwing Ming's books on chin na, as well as his bagua and taichi books. The man has a deep understanding of what he does,"

"However, his work, in my opinion, does not compare with Zhao Da Yuan's Practical Chin Na"

excellent manual.

the usual suspects:

guy savelli-www.worldkungu.com or search bullshido thread "master guy savelli, the spirit of bullshido"

robert torres-from what i have been told on this site.

"pendekar" william sanders-cimande

al colangelo seems to make some pretty boastful claims-www.mindboxing.com

serak lineage is small, so that is claim always suspect unless they can trace the line.to my knowledge only DeVries,Dethours,and Reeders lines exist in the U.S., i could be wrong.

richard clear- personally, i have a real problem with his claim of 'mastery' of ten styles of martial arts. his website is actually one of the more interesting and informative ones on silat. the techniques displayed are certainly silat. there is one thing about him that stands out as quite bothersome and a look at his pics should easy reveal what it is.

a source that i respect highly, who has meet him, says that he is not really that skilled. i must of course state that this is an OPINION. dont want anybody crying about slander.

oh yea, everything above is an OPINION. i MIGHT be wrong.*disclaimer*

peace.

" a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"

**Xuanlong Xian** · Posted On: 5/23/2003 5:47pm

Whatever Yang Jwing-ming's expertise, many of his higher-level students bring tears to my eyes. Flashy external technique, no internal power. It kind of reminds me of his books, which seem much broader than they are deep.