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  1. #11
    Your RBSD Cannot Save You Now. supporting member
    Coyote's Avatar
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    Jan 2006
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    Missouri
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    1,190
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    Spanish Rapier/Epee/Foil
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, it did sound nice, but I picked up a book with a ton of information about close quarters moves with the rapier. Disarms and throws and such.

    That, and the concept of fighting with a sword and dagger, sword and cloak, sword and shield, or a case of rapiers is just too cool to pass up.

  2. #12
    Lane's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
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    Houston, Texas
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    1,354
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    Muso Shinden Ryu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote
    After making at least one visit to pretty much every training hall within a fifty mile radius, I have finally decided to train at a place called The Jack of Swords.

    Here is their website: http://www.thejackofswords.com

    I have decided upon the Spanish Rapier since, according to what I have read, the Rapier is the most realistic of the "fencing weapons" (i.e. foil, sabre, epee) besides the sabre.

    There are two other styles and I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference between the Italian, Spanish, and French styles of Rapier swordplay.

    A foil is a training rapier.
    --
    L.

  3. #13
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
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    Style
    Bartitsu
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Even within a national grouping (Italian rapier) there are several different styles, depending on the master who produced the treatise that the study group is based on. Some schools focus on single styles, others offer a syllabus in a more generic form combining several different sources. The most widely influential source would be the work of Ridolpho Capo Ferro, known as the "Gran Simulacro" (1610).

    There is some decent footage of modern rapier/dagger fencing at http://www.swordacademy.com/academy-.../s-rapier2.mpg and http://www.swordacademy.com/academy-.../s-rapier1.mpg .

    BTW, the modern foil is not really a training weapon for the rapier. It was originally (back in the 1800s) a training weapon for the smallsword, which was itself a descendent of the rapier; and confusingly, blunt training swords of all kinds have been referred to as "foils" in English for at least four hundred years. Anyway, no, modern foil fencing doesn't bear much similarity to rapier fencing.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    129
    Style
    Judo + Kyokushin
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    The most widely influential source would be the work of Ridolpho Capo Ferro.
    Wow. That totally explains the dialogue between Inigo and Wesley in The Princess Bride.

  5. #15
    DdlR's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
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    Style
    Bartitsu
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep. Every master they mention is based on a real historical fencing instructor, even though the fight choreography obviously has nothing to do with the way these masters actually fought.

    BTW, if you liked the movie, I strongly recommend the book ...

  6. #16
    mrblackmagic's Avatar
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    Jan 2006
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    right behind you.
    Posts
    3,404
    Style
    yang taichi
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am far too lazy for that. I just stick to destreza.

  7. #17
    Your RBSD Cannot Save You Now. supporting member
    Coyote's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    1,190
    Style
    Spanish Rapier/Epee/Foil
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane
    A foil is a training rapier.
    True, but the modern sport of fencing with the foil is entirely different from fencing with the rapier.

    If I understand properly, the only permissable target in foil is the body, and only thrusts can score.

    Sabre is different in that anything above the waist (i.e. head, arms, and body) is a target and cuts are allowed.

    I have no idea what the rules of epee are.

    Rapier is basically the Kendo of the fencing weapons. It's the closest to "t3h r34l d34l" that you will get.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    59
    Style
    Kung Fu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane
    A foil is a training rapier.
    No. A foil is a training SMALLSWORD.

    The smallsword replaced the rapier. It was a lightweight thrusting weapon that was carried by all noblemen. Sort of a sidearm for when the **** went down.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    59
    Style
    Kung Fu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The spanish school takes a lot of **** from modern fencers. It's esoteric, mystical, and based on sacred geometry...sort of a western T'ai Chi.

    HOWEVER

    The spanish were the most feared rapier masters in the world. The word "Spaniard" was synonomous with "Swordsman" for a while. People would often import spanish fencing masters to do away with enemies. It was sort of "murder by duel." The Spaniard would pick a fight with the victim, challenge him to a duel, and win.

    This is why there is a Spaniard in the Princess Bride.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    59
    Style
    Kung Fu
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote
    True, but the modern sport of fencing with the foil is entirely different from fencing with the rapier.

    If I understand properly, the only permissable target in foil is the body, and only thrusts can score.

    Sabre is different in that anything above the waist (i.e. head, arms, and body) is a target and cuts are allowed.

    I have no idea what the rules of epee are.

    Rapier is basically the Kendo of the fencing weapons. It's the closest to "t3h r34l d34l" that you will get.
    Rapier is t3h r34l for a particular time period. The rapier was replaced with the smallsword, which was the self-defence weapon, and sabre, which was the military weapon (all the way up to WWI).

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