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  1. shinbushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2006 4:08pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seattletcj
    Shinbushi,

    Actually this question is open to any TMArtist who practice alive.
    How do you personally embrace a training style like aliveness, as described by Matt Thornton which is strongly against kata practice, when your base style is built on kata practice? Can the two systems really work together? Because it does not sound like Mr Thornton believes so.
    I believe that they can. look at Kyokushin. They have kata but spar hard. BJK used to spar back in the day as Mongo and I ave said repeatedly. I think Matt is the Radical Aliveness Crusader (Which is NEEDED) I am more of a moderate. Could my students and I become betters fighter without kata? Maybe. But we enjoy it and do find it to be useful. The people wjo train at my dojo like the mix. Some who came to learn a TMA (And whould have never stepping into a BJJ, MMA or kickboxing gym before hand) have seen aliveness and decided that is ALL they wanted and left for BJJ and Kickboxing Gyms. I am glad I showed them the path.
    I'll tell you an example of what I do in class, and how I try to incorporate "aliveness" as much as possible, and you tell me if its close to what you do or way off base.

    I willl start with a traditional kata. Jumonji no kata for example. Get the body mechanics, distance, timing,balance, structure etc as perfect as possible within the paramaters of Bujinkan kata training. Uke tori relationship with a set attack and set response without any unknown variables, for the most part.

    I will then extract what * I * believe to be the core elements of the kata. This usually means leaving out some "classical" elements and replacing them with something more "practical" . For example in jumonji no kata, I would work on the simple idea of moving off the line of attack by shifting to the rear leg (withoutout giving up any ground) , followed by a counter strike by the lead hand to the body and an immediate jab to the face with the lead as you retreat (or the jab can set up a cross for moving forward).



    I usually try to then set up a drill that has as many unknown variables as possible while still maintaining some structure.
    For example, "attacker" will make 4 attacks of any kind, and initates action. "Defender" will commit to 2 attacks. The first must be a counter attack, but may come at any time in the sequence of the attackers random strikes....and the defender must follow up the counter strike with something else.

    heheh sounds confusing? Maybe it is.

    We will then try to incorporate the bare minimal jumonji no kata to the above drill. Evade , lead counterattack low , jab/metsubishi high, move.

    Eventually the idea would be to work up from the bare minimal kata, by increasingly adding on the other elements of the classical kata like the balance disrupting uke nagashi, boshi ken etc....and seeing how close we can get it to the classic kata (proper Bujinkan kamae, distance etc) while still maintaining the increased speed and unknown variables.

    Make sense? Or am I making it harder then I need to.
    I hope this is not considered a thread hijack.
    This is how I started out. Now one principle that I use in the alive class from jumonji no kat is the parry with the lead, body shot followed by a cross.
    Now in a kata class there is a lot of other movement that can be found but, that is the extent of it for my alive class.
  2. shinbushi is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2006 4:16pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Shinbushi do you get other bujinkan guys telling you that you aren't doing the r34l bujinkan? Do they screw up thier faces when you talk about aliveness?
    No Either on forums I have been told that or I have head from my spys (:ninjafigh) at other dojos of ex-students or others bad mouthing what I do. To be fair, I do also hear positve stuff as well.
  3. Cullion is offline
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    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2006 7:39pm

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     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seattletcj
    Shinbushi,

    Actually this question is open to any TMArtist who practice alive.
    How do you personally embrace a training style like aliveness, as described by Matt Thornton which is strongly against kata practice, when your base style is built on kata practice? Can the two systems really work together? Because it does not sound like Mr Thornton believes so.
    It depends on the form and what you think it's for. Not everybody doing what might be called a 'TMA' thinks that their forms are a replacement for sparring.
    Besides, styles which include forms do not necessarily involve a significant component of class time spent practicing forms. They often don't.
    It's not like Matt Thornton invented sparring.
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  4. SuperGuido is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/14/2006 11:35pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shinbushi: Do you ever run "Offense/Defense" sparring in order to practice the defensive aspects of taijutsu?

    This seems like a no brainer, as most boxing/muay thai clubs I've been to always use Offensive/Defense...but I'm curious as to how effective "Alive Taijutsu" would be in a purely defensive situation.

    I'd bet you'd see (or do see) a huge difference in skill and technique, and that "Alive Taijutsu" practitioners would be some of the most slippery, slidey, hard to hit opponents.

    What is your experience in watching "Traditional" taijutsu students adapt to a "Free Sparring" environment versus a "Defensive Sparring" environment?

    By the way, thanks for posting clips!
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