well...maybe you see there some explanation of your points, i dont but hey, who am i too find your arguing habilities are just plain absent...anyway....
What i tried to say's that A LOT of martial arts are practiced by a lot of peoples for an infinite of reasons in billions of situations...some tries to be the best mma fighters, others just wanna "stay fit" others are in search for a glims of feodal batlefield ...
i just wanna see some respect and humility in this forum. No, bjj wont give you adventage in all situations and YES, tkd sucks in real fight scenario but hey. what if the guy loves to swing the leg like cancan girls and think he rocks like that....
maybe i just passes above the thing, maybe i dont understand whats the "coolness" of being a highly fit dumbass stuborn no brainer...
let the ninja think they can desapear in thin air and the mma trainned guys gnp a cock while being shot cold in the head....
i am a big fan of mma ( espacially pride and tko ) and i love also other form of MA but in this forum it seems it cant happens. worst, it seems that even if someone love mma, if he think bjj ( or wrestling or shooto, insert any mma used styles here) sucks,he ' ll find a crowd of ufc champs wannabes killing all he says.....
The issue isn't enjoying martial arts for multiple reasons, or for reasons unrelated to fighting.
It is about being honest about the martial part.
The OP isn't and is ignorant.
i understand that the "truth" here's in a cosntant search ( for some ) and this tread talking about wrestling winning more fight than bjj' s a sort of "fact batle" tending to proove wrestler are better martial artist then bjjers....
all this i understand...
What i'm saying ( and maybe the speaking language' a barrier since i'm french speaking ) its when someone making a point that doesnt agree with others, some users will begin trash talk and not listening...
Here the trash talking is relevant because the original poster is ignorant and makes absurd contentions.
I've never met anyone who didn't admit that bjj's takedown skills were lacking or that you needed serious crosstraining in striking arts.
agree with you.ANYBODY saying here, in 2006, that crosstrainning isnt important for a real scenario/mma comp fight's a jurk..( unless your in one of the "nun-competition axes MA i talked about in my first reply ) and everyboby should agree...
STFU. The "original poster" (me) made all kinds of sense in all kinds of ways. You're argument is that nobody disagrees with my argument anymore so I shouldn't even say these things. How does that not mean I'm right?
Keep in mind that I was saying these things five years ago when you weren't. I made threads with this exact information (even the same article) in them back when this place was called McDojo. Also, keep in mind that I was right and I'm still right.
Maybe YOU don't think this topic is relevant anymore but that's because you came to this forum and got educated. This forum doesn't represent the majority of martial artists in real life. This forum wouldn't need to exist if it did.
The fact is, most BJJ people still think they somehow have an edge over everyone else when it comes to MMA competition and they don't. They never have at any point in professional MMA history. They haven't contributed more to the game. They haven't dominated the game.
Tell a Gracie what I just said and he won't agree. Tell any devoted BJJ nut what I just said and he won't agree. The only reason you agree is because you've spent enough time on this forum to be educated by people like me.
If you were to be entirely honest, you'd admit that (as a BJJ blue belt) you still felt BJJ was going to give you an edge in MMA or real fighting when compared to other martial arts. I'm sure you secretly still want to believe that right now.
It's not a fact.
Wrestlers beat BJJ out in the ring. They'd do it in real fights too. Wrestlers. Guys who didn't even know subs when they dominated. BJJ doesn't give you an edge over any trained fighter. Cross training gives you an edge.
That's a point any Bullshido member should hope to hear thousands of times a day. It should be like music. He should never get tired of hearing that, "Crosstraining, not BJJ, gives you an edge in MMA." Instead, hearing it somehow pisses you off? Why? ... Because you think the message is played out? No. That's not the truth. It bothers you because you have a BJJ blue belt and you want to feel like that makes you special. you want to feel like everyone should praise you for your awesome wisdom that has come from two or three years of rolling around with fat guys in some local school and proving yourself the best of a class of eight to ten guys, advancing far past Phil from Home Depo who is still a white belt.
BJJ is not a better base art from which to crosstrain than Judo, Muay Thai, Japanese Jiu Juitsu, kickboxing, Sambo, Jeet Kune Do, Wrestling, boxing, Ninjutsu, Dragonball Z Jui Juitsu, etc. You still don't believe that in your heart of hearts. That's why I piss you off. Also, the fact that I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'd wipe my butt with your blue belt if we got together even though I have no rank. :)
Because I would. No question. :)
No one has discounted your claim that wrestling is a formidable art on the ground. Most of us just have an issue with you making the judgement. Since you spend most of your time theorizing about fighting as opposed to actually training.
My original issue was you deciding what BJJ has contributed to MMA and most training in particular. Those things shouldn't be judged by you due to your lack of experience and training.
Last edited by MONGO; 7/03/2006 2:32am at .
I've logged over 1,737 hours sparring, Mongo. Nothing I say is based on theory at this point. I don't know which orifice you whipped that "opposed to actually training" comment out of but you can shove it right back in there because it makes no sense. I've trained hard my whole life.
That's what I can't stand. You guys have this attitude that any training outside of BJJ is not training. Bullshit. My training is just as applicable to MMA as yours, chief. Heck, I probably know how to and have applied more BJJ moves than you if you want to compare dicks. Most of them aren't unique to BJJ and I pick up new stuff pretty fast.
You have no point if your point is that I am right but I shouldn't be the one saying it.
1. I'm still right.
2. I should be the one saying it because EVERYONE should be saying it.
you have admitted to not doing any formal training and you want to make claims that you are more skilled than people who attend 4 or 5 days of class under instructors with decades of experience.
The claims of x amount of hours in sparring/training/drilling sounds like complete bullshit. You have admitted that you train in your backyard and don't belong to any gyms or dojos.
Also you come up with ideas about BJJ that you have admitted are unproven and you attempt to evaluate it as though you know what the **** you are talking about.
You are a complete bullshit artist. You shouldn't be part of this site since you are the very evil it is designed to destroy. I don't call bullshit on you because you don't do BJJ, I call bullshit on you cause you're a fucking moron and have know clue what the hell you are talking about.
Reading books doesn't equal training. Watching video doesn't equal training. Dry humping your friends/inanimate objects in your backyard doesn't equal training.
I wish you would actually put these theories to test in a MMA match, you getting your **** stomped would be a good introduction to reality.
Last edited by MONGO; 7/03/2006 4:34am at .
>you have admitted to not doing any formal training
Can you find any thread on this forum where I said that I have never had any formal training? One thread? Any thread? My old profile? My new one? Anywhere? ...
Are you saying that I have never had any formal training in BJJ? Is that what you mean? Because, again, I do not see formal training in BJJ as being all that special. My opinion on what BJJ is or isn't is an educated opinion. Maybe you need to study some Judo and Japanese Jiu Juitsu before you state your opinion on what BJJ has contributed to MMA. If you've only studied BJJ, you have no idea how much it owes those styles and how much it owes wrestling. I've trained in all of those styles so I can subtract what they offer from what BJJ offers. Have you trained in them? Have you done any research at all? You pick on me for reading but maybe you should at least read some books so you can understand that BJJ didn't invent the wheel.
>you want to make claims that you are more
>skilled than people who attend 4 or 5 days of
>class under instructors with decades of
Because I have decades of experience.
>You have admitted that you train in your
>backyard and don't belong to any gyms
Look up some of my old threads. I provided links to a few of them a couple of pages ago. Never have I ever said anything like that. What I said was that I ALSO train in my yard. I've spent more time in gyms and dojos than you've spent breathing.
>Also you come up with ideas about BJJ that you
>have admitted are unproven and you attempt to
>evaluate it as though you know what the ****
>you are talking about.
I have not written anything on this thread that I haven't done myself.
>You shouldn't be part of this site since
>you are the very evil it is designed to
When I compete in MMA, it will be for my own enjoyment. I'll get to it when I get to it. Until then, anytime you want to show me how much of a bullshit artist I am you can give me a call and we can hang out and spar and all that. Maybe when I get regular work I'll come to Japan so you can have your instructors show me how full of **** I am. Yeeha. I plan on visiting Japan in the next few years anyway.
Just let time run its course. You'll see. Relax and see what happens. It's not like this thread hasn't been over a dozen times. I'd let it go if people didn't feel the need to constantly insult me for no good reason.
Last edited by 9chambers; 7/03/2006 5:28am at .