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  1. baqi9 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/20/2006 3:55pm


     Style: Ving Tsun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.alanorr.com/index.html

    These cats are doing it. They use wc and wrestling and whatnot, but hay they have vids on some of their fights: http://www.alanorr.com/htdocs/images/movies.html
  2. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/20/2006 11:14pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Those guys arent doing WC. Its MMA.

    Its just like the kung fu guys who point towards San Shou to prove how great Kung Fu is.
  3. supercrap is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 12:01am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Those guys arent doing WC. Its MMA.
    Let's be careful here, otherwise we'll be accused of being unreasonable.

    If a person trains wing chun their whole life, then wants to fight MMA and supplements their training with some wrestling and submissions, give them some fuckin credit. I could see some WC things in the Alan Orr videos.
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  4. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 12:10am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thats true SuperCrap. But it does not valididate any WC training.

    What they are doing may have WC in it. In fact they might base their entire standup game on WC. But what they do is spar. They dont do forms and trap all day like homos. They use the basic techniques of WC and spar with them. Also just because they use alittle of WC in it does not mean the fighters are WC.
  5. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 12:12am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    That means what exactly? Which loser is WT?

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  6. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 12:32am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Well thats you saying you preferred a challenge. .
    o, I see, my bad, I forget you all are all about fighting, so you see the word "challenge" and think Gong Sau. If you read that in context you will see I am refeering to spending some time on learning something difficult, and not only doing something simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    DTT give it up. Think about what you said. WC guys train for strikes to the throat and sternum as hard as they can. Those can easily kill. ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?! .
    Soft targets. Crushed throat/larynex is not easy to repair. Broken rib into paracardial cavity can result in a stopped heart. They must be follwed up ofcoarse.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    If you cant modify your training from hitting the throat to hitting the chin you are a horrible martial artist. You should be able to pick a spot on the body and hit it. .
    Hitting the chin, or any part on the body is not the issue. The results of the hit are. Are you saying We should go into an MMA and TRY to hit the throat because throats can handle it? Chins are much tougher then throats, especially if they have the support of a Mouth guard backing them up.

    In my spar clip with the MT, lite contact, I start with a squre solid hit on the chin. I was then told by Bullshido it takes more then one hit to the chin to win a fight. How about an open handed throat check to start things off?

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Also the gloves are so small. You can trap with them easily. I did Kempo and we had alot of trapping. I put MMA gloves on and trapped with the other Kempo guys. Yea it worked great, just as if there were no gloves. Only problem is when I tried that dumb **** on a kickboxer. DOESNT WORK.
    I do not train trapping. It's as worthless as training Knife Disarms. If it happens as a by product of someone trying to grab chain punches, great. Why does every ignorant fool on here read Wing Chun and think "trapping".

    I admit the gloves are a minor issue, but they are padded and in the way of having "fast hands" and inner rotation, which is a move you use in WT to....

    AVOID HAVING YOUR HANDS TRAPPED.

    think about the UFC boxer that got stuck on his glove.

    I mentioned gloves in a certain context. If you wanna **** with me, read my context. I make plenty enough mislkates with what I am trying to say directly, so hit me with that. Don't take it off on some other angle.

    I mentioned gloves as requiring a change in technique. If I wear gloves, I will modify my hitting to take advantage of the benifit the gloves provide to my hands and to avoid the negitive effects of them. Thus, it is not WT anymore. WT is for hitting WITHOUT gloves, and without hurting your fingers, wrist, and knuckles. Gloves of anysize, even just leather workgloves take away from hand speed(minor) and from sensitivity (major)

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  7. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 12:58am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok I misread you on the challenge part. Meh.

    Yes all of those deadly strikes. No boxer or MMA fighters ever get hit in the ribs with tons of power. Hell if they did they would die! Or maybe it takes alot more skill and force to break the rib then you think. In other words yes a crushed larynx is hard to repair. But guess what? You wont be able to get that shot off in a fight.

    Like I said if you cant hit a guys chin or face or some legal target while he bobs and weaves how the **** are you going to hit his thoat when all you have to do to protect it is tuck your chin. How do I know? Cause me and my bro did try sparring and attacking the side of the neck. It does jack **** once you tuck your chin.

    The whole point is WC doesnt train alive. Yes MMA people dont train to hit the throat or soft targets. They hit the chin. They lock the body. Anyone who doesnt see that as a killing machine needs to open their eyes. ITS NOT PRESSURE TESTED! How can you say that you would be able to pick soft targets and cruch them in a fight when you cant do that with the chin or other areas in sparring?

    Dont start bitching and taking this as a personal attack. This is WC in general. Im sure yours sux too though.

    Also, wearing gloves changes things? Ok. saying that wearing work gloves hinders your WC? Hinders sensitivity? WTF would sensitivity matter for? You just said you arent trapping. So why do you need to feel your opponent so much? Bob weave and smash. Thats all that is needed.
  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 1:03am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by supercrap
    Dr Tzun Tzu... The link you provided...

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...917310872&q=WT

    Why does this look nothing like the WT videos? You know the ones where someone lands on the floor then the WT guy kneels on his chest and chain punches him 45,000 times and maybe elbows him and then he dies?

    Oh that's right, because that common WT technique is complete and utter bullshit. People don't die as soon as their back lands on the ground. The shrimp, they grab you, they struggle.
    Thats pretty funny. I totally agree that the WT videos out there give a bad impression. People make set up videos of different training drills, and you all have only that to go on. Not the best fight choreography, notr anything like a real fight.

    In these drills, if the "human dummy" struggles, it increases the risk of injury. I know you have seen the Estonia Lat Sau tourny video Supercrap. That is a different drill, with contact. We have many drills.

    The linked video above, has many elements of WT in the fighters performance. He uses a back stance and single leg to defend a takedown (as well as the cage). He fights from the rear leg untill he goes down at about 1:14, and then uses leg pushs to rotate away into guard. at 1:20 he uses the "judo katana" escape and again at 5:54, from the "useless" anti-grappling program. Theres some other minor stuff, but it doesn't matter really...

    Because the guy with the white stripe I am taklking about is from Shooters MMA anyway!! (not WT Center, he's the other guy, and he loses:laughing9 ) who knows what the WT stands for anyway?

    You guys are pathetic. I give you such easy stuff to break me on like that, and instead you go off on some strawman arguement how WT Training Demos do not look like fighting.....

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 1:22am

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     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Ok I misread you on the challenge part. Meh.
    That was pretty funny though, triggered a thread about me fighting DA I think....:new_silly

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Yes all of those deadly strikes. No boxer or MMA fighters ever get hit in the ribs with tons of power. Hell if they did they would die! Or maybe it takes alot more skill and force to break the rib then you think. In other words yes a crushed larynx is hard to repair. But guess what? You wont be able to get that shot off in a fight.
    Tell that to this guy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pM9lnlqThY

    Admitedly the Rib/sternum break is not easy, even harder with padded gloves. I have had my floater ribs broken in WT sparring. Solarplexus shot is another good one.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Like I said if you cant hit a guys chin or face or some legal target while he bobs and weaves how the **** are you going to hit his thoat when all you have to do to protect it is tuck your chin.
    OK, this is silly. If bobbing and weaving worked then Boxers would NEVER HIT eachother. Its about 50/50 chance. If you do miss, then you drop an elbow on them. Elbows not legal in boxing so they can risk it. I haven't seen much bob and weave in MMA. Slipping maybe.

    As to tucking the chin, go for it, hold that for the whole fight. you still got two juglars on the sides, collar bones, and if your head is tucked that deep it just makes you more vulnerable to a neck pull.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    How do I know? Cause me and my bro did try sparring and attacking the side of the neck. It does jack **** once you tuck your chin.
    Full power? No gloves? Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    The whole point is WC doesnt train alive. Yes MMA people dont train to hit the throat or soft targets. They hit the chin. They lock the body. Anyone who doesnt see that as a killing machine needs to open their eyes. ITS NOT PRESSURE TESTED! How can you say that you would be able to pick soft targets and cruch them in a fight when you cant do that with the chin or other areas in sparring?

    Dont start bitching and taking this as a personal attack. This is WC in general. Im sure yours sux too though.
    I won't take it persoanlly, its just the internet.

    Look, I said WC people THINK they can. That was on purpose. I am not completely beliving it to be true, only playing the Shaitans advocate in this debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    Also, wearing gloves changes things? Ok. saying that wearing work gloves hinders your WC? Hinders sensitivity? WTF would sensitivity matter for? You just said you arent trapping. So why do you need to feel your opponent so much? Bob weave and smash. Thats all that is needed.
    I feel with my hands. If my punch hitts an arm it must open into a Pak. My pak has to mve along the arm. If they grab or grapple I must feel it strat, and counter rotate to avoid it. The material gets caught up sometimes. The padding prevents the bones from breaking other small bones like sternums and ribs or from forming a ridge hand to smash neck bones.

    But As I said, it is minor issues and requires only minor modifications.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  10. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2006 1:46am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    But how do you know you can do that stuff if you do not pressure test it? I train the way I fight. I strike and grapple just as I would fight. I do not have to modify anything. I can pick and chose my target. As s BJJ student I can apply locks and holds to the body that could dripple or kill. They can alos be used just to control. I can also use all of the dirty tactics very well because I am used to the adrenaline rush from a fight. I have good positioning. In striking I can pick and choose a target that is moving. I can hit whatever I want. It doesn take much to go from jab to the chin to jab to the throat or whatever.

    It does take alot to go from drills and forms to actually fighting.

    also yes that guy in the vid go hurt. What about the countless videos of boxers, kickboxer and MMA fighters who dont get hurt from it?

    Also that guy was a boxer. Wheres the WC clips of that happening? He trains in an alive manner as a boxer. He picks a target and hits it. WC guys dont normally spar so they cant expect that do happen.
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