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  1. waapwoop is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 7:57pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by supercrap
    "Respect"? I lost that a long time ago.

    I just think DTT is a loon, who constantly jumps at every opportunity to lambast Wing CHUn without realising that most of the time, no matter how it's spelt, it sucks the big one.
    Surely, in your experience, you have met some wing chun people that can fight. Who have been in lots of fights, and people you definately wouldn't want to fight.

    Do you think, if trained the right way, that it would work?
  2. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 8:21pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by waapwoop
    Surely, in your experience, you have met some wing chun people that can fight. Who have been in lots of fights, and people you definately wouldn't want to fight.
    Actually, I myself have never seen a single _ing __un person fight well in full contact against a good fighter, using something that looked like _ing __un. Not once.

    Do you think, if trained the right way, that it would work?
    No. I actually think it is inherently flawed.
  3. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 8:24pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    Full Contact fights eaah? Like Gracie vs Hughes? No, I cann't and I won't. Those only prove how good the fighter is. For Styles and techniques you need to look at the material, the training, the program, the teachers.
    It also has something to do with the style of fighting and training, not just the fighter. You can claim "its just the fighter" if its 1 or 2 fights. But when you get to a large number of fights with similar results, you can no longer say "its just the fighter".

    And looking at the results is the ONLY way to know if the material, training, program, and teachers are working as advertised. Without those results, you are just living a fantasy. This is not math, where people like Kepler and Newton can come up with mathematics that are shown hundreds of years later to be dead-on accurate. This is FIGHTING. You can't just think your way along. Eventually, there have to be tests, and examination of the results. Results, results, results. That's what matters.
  4. waapwoop is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 8:55pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Actually, I myself have never seen a single _ing __un person fight well in full contact against a good fighter, using something that looked like _ing __un. Not once.

    No. I actually think it is inherently flawed.

    sorry if you were confused.... i was talking to Supercrap.

    Unless you are supercrap under a different name
  5. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 8:58pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by waapwoop
    sorry if you were confused.... i was talking to Supercrap.

    Unless you are supercrap under a different name
    Sorry if you are confused. I offered my opinion anyway.
    :ingun:
  6. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2006 12:00am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by waapwoop
    Surely, in your experience, you have met some wing chun people that can fight. Who have been in lots of fights, and people you definately wouldn't want to fight.

    Do you think, if trained the right way, that it would work?

    met people that can fight - yep. law of averages. take a large group of people, some of them can fight.

    been in lots of fights - i only know of one. :5zombie: No, I probably wouldn't want to fight him. I'd probably sneak up on him while he's asleep and grapplerise him.

    Can Wing Chun work? In what setting, self defence? I don't know. Too hit and miss to give you a definite answer. In MMA? No, not on its own, not the way its trained in all the places I have seen and trained in.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
  7. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
    Dr._Tzun_Tzu's Avatar

    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2006 12:21am

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    It also has something to do with the style of fighting and training, not just the fighter. You can claim "its just the fighter" if its 1 or 2 fights. But when you get to a large number of fights with similar results, you can no longer say "its just the fighter".
    No arguement here on that. But I myself and several of my students, as well as many other WT people have been in fights and won them. Just not sport contests on Payperview. You are implying that we have a long history of lossing fights with no victorys and that is far from true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    And looking at the results is the ONLY way to know if the material, training, program, and teachers are working as advertised. Without those results, you are just living a fantasy. This is not math, where people like Kepler and Newton can come up with mathematics that are shown hundreds of years later to be dead-on accurate. This is FIGHTING. You can't just think your way along. Eventually, there have to be tests, and examination of the results. Results, results, results. That's what matters.
    Controled events with rules and padded hands are not results. Mouth peieces do not give the same results as raw teeth. Sport fights are a great test but the bias inheirt in them can not be ignored either.

    But I will go a different way for a minute. I agree fully that it is all about training. And as a whole, a group represents this system of training. That is exactly why we WT get mad when you call us WC and so on. That is why I referenced Hughs vs Gracie. Rorion claiming Hughs used BJJ and such. What training did Royce do over the last 15 years? Is that what you can hope to be after a lifetime of Gracie BJJ?

    Do all wrestlers train alike? Do all Boxers? Is there any comformatity in any of this? How can we make any claims on a scientific level about any system or style. Everything is so different and every label so flawed in Martial Arts?

    So in a way we can only look at ourselves, and our own results. We can only test material on our own terms with our own standards. We can watch others, even see trends in the sport MMA industry, but in the end it is our experiences that we must use to judge.

    I have expirenced WT, Latosa Escrima, WC, Judo, Boxing, BJJ, Tai Chi, Aikido, Karate, Wrestling, school yard fights, challangers in my gym, and stopped a home invasion at my neighbors house. I have trained in many ways and seen what training does for me.

    EBMAS is full of people that have mastered these and many other systems BEFORE they came to Emin B. for training (well maybe not any BJJ masters
    :redface: ), so we as a group have these experiences. So when we cross train, it is to perfect EBMAS against others, not to mix and match others to make an EBMMA.

    So we need to be MORE scientific about studing fighting, about understanding the physics and training theory that we are applying, and worry less about what sport fighters style is being used. It is more about exactly what, and how to duplicate it.

    (I am tired, I think this went off in too many directions, sorry....more later)

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  8. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2006 12:48am


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    No arguement here on that. But I myself and several of my students, as well as many other WT people have been in fights and won them. Just not sport contests on Payperview. You are implying that we have a long history of lossing fights with no victorys and that is far from true.
    Then where are they? Where is the evidence of said victories?


    Controled events with rules and padded hands are not results. Mouth peieces do not give the same results as raw teeth. Sport fights are a great test but the bias inheirt in them can not be ignored either.
    What bias? Boxers and kickboxers knock people out all the time in MMA events. Why can't _ing __un guys do that? Seriously. What is it about _ing __un that makes them unable or unwilling to step in and knock people out, when boxers and kickboxers can?
  9. KhorneliusPraxx

    Guest

    Posted On:
    6/19/2006 8:06am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    http://download.minidocs.net/

    scroll down

    6, 13, 15, and 17

    Hes got a pony tail and lots of gear on.
    Cool...
    Adults Video

    I will check these out and get back with you.
  10. KhorneliusPraxx

    Guest

    Posted On:
    6/19/2006 11:07am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    http://download.minidocs.net/

    scroll down

    6, 13, 15, and 17

    Hes got a pony tail and lots of gear on.
    Actually...thanx.
    now I have some throwdown vids to watch.
    I haven't seen these before.
    My only advice is...title these vids with the names of the participants...I don't know who any of them are.
    When was this and is there a thread about these videos?

    Who is in the white gi? He has many similar movements as Superkick did in Kansas City?
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