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  1. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2006 9:33pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://download.minidocs.net/

    scroll down

    6, 13, 15, and 17

    Hes got a pony tail and lots of gear on.
  2. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Least Cool Guy in all of Japan
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 1:25am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You know, in my opinion, some of those videos aren't too bad.

    Not nearly as bad as DTT's posting would have you believe.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
    Scramble Stuff
  3. Southpaw is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 9:21am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    So KP is exactly on target. He was not punching, he was blocking with a fist. It is just a drill to get coordination, but that is why EBMAS and other WT systems prefer to use punch against punch for this kinda drill. In that example, the second punch would be just behind the miss, not over it, in a chain punching format.
    Hi DTT.

    I disagree w/ this.

    You don't block w/ a fist...you throw a punch to intercept a punch.

    Ultimately it is still a punch since if his punch was a fake...your punch should connect.
  4. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 11:12am


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by supercrap
    Just **** off.

    Seriously.


    Here's a story for you. A guy is humping a pig. Another guy is humping a sheep. The pigfucker turns to the sheepfucker and says "Woah, dude, you are humping a sheep - you are SICK."
    LMFAO!!! I haven't heard that one before. But I'm gonna remember that one and use it someday.

    If I use it on Bullshido though, I'll credit you. :evil5:
  5. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 11:45am


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    It is easy to rag on Ing Un as 90% of it sucks. I am working on showing you why the other 10% is awsome.
    Are you saying you spend your time studying an art that you know 90% sucks? Are you shitting me?
  6. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 2:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by supercrap

    Tell me this. If I told you I had a video on my hard drive of a WING CHUNNER beating the **** out of a MMA guy (I don't by the way) would you disassociate yourself from it if I presented it as proof of ING UN'S effectiveness? Would you not claim it as proof because WING TSUN is so radically different from WING CHUN?
    I would look at it and see what they did in the fight. If they followed the so called "minor" WC differences and won, I would say Good Wing Chun. If they instead used the Minor WT concepts, I would point those out. If it wasn't Chun at all I would say so.

    Whats your point? The differences are not minor, or should I start calling BJJ Judo?


    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    WC is gay. Also DTT, not to be an ass or anything but you say you prefer a challenge match? I think we saw your abilities on the thread Dark Glitch vs a Street Fight.

    Not being an ass or anything but it didnt seem like you had much sparring experience. Maybe things have changed though.
    I want a challange match? When did I challange someone? Ya, I don't spar ever really, maybe a few times a year. I used to spar alot, but not since about 2002. I did pretty good for someone with nile recent experience, vs people that do spar I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mjelva
    I want some of the **** DTT is smoking.
    And a link to that match.
    Unfortunatly, the match in the link will not light what I am smoking. Matchs are not hot enough, you need a torch to get the freebase cooking....

    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    http://download.minidocs.net/

    scroll down

    6, 13, 15, and 17

    Hes got a pony tail and lots of gear on.
    Its a Top Knot, and I am not in vid number 15 (or was it 13?) anyway, I am only in 3 of them.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  7. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 2:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Amp
    Hi DTT.

    I disagree w/ this.

    You don't block w/ a fist...you throw a punch to intercept a punch.

    Ultimately it is still a punch since if his punch was a fake...your punch should connect.
    ofcoarse, but ItsFake pointed out the punch in the drill was fake, i.e. not even close to a punch in anyway. Its one of those "pak crossed under punch at the same time moves", if you haven't seen the vid. They are thrown out as blocks, not a punch and block.

    Later, when you add a step to that drill, the pak "sticks" with the block and your punch slides on past and becomes a real attack. or it was even a real attack from the start. The pak then slides down to your punch arm elbowas you move around it. but not in th evideo drill.

    So I just pointed out the vid clip is more like a double guan, for those chunners that are brave enough to read posts on here and understand what the labels mean.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  8. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 3:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Are you saying you spend your time studying an art that you know 90% sucks? Are you shitting me?
    No way, I have the Real Wing Tzun!!!!

    The art itself is not 90% foul. The Art is solid. It is just to complex and people are too stupid and lazy, always looking for the quick and easy road.

    It is also very different then other systems, so when you crosstrain it futher screws things up. Alot of Chunner Sifus quit early and then added in missing parts from other styles. but those parts do not fit, so things got changed up to make it fit. Like using a inch socket wrench on a metric head, it can be made to fit a few times, but it strips the head and ruins the nut in the long run.

    So, some whole versions of Wing Whatever suck. Then, within the versions that do have it correct, at least that did at one point in time, like Moy Yat Si-fu, or Leung Ting si-fu, and a few others, the people get it wrong as time goes by. Then you get specialization error, and you cann't do it outside of clasroom drills. Many other reasons,.....mostly it is the result of incomplete training becomeing the whole system, which is why you see Chi sau with no stepping so much. It has footwork in it ya know.

    So you endup with about 10% of the people that start it and spend some time in it able to do it. Even in WT you still have alot of failures.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

  9. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 3:17pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr._Tzun_Tzu
    No way, I have the Real Wing Tzun!!!!

    The art itself is not 90% foul. The Art is solid. It is just to complex and people are too stupid and lazy, always looking for the quick and easy road.
    Okay, Yoda. :icon_roll

    It is also very different then other systems, so when you crosstrain it futher screws things up.
    That sounds a lot like an excuse to keep students dedicated to one school, to get their money.

    So...we arive here again...can you show me some videos of Teh R3al _ing __un working in full contact fights against good fighters? It sounds like Teh ReA| art is so difficult and complex that almost no one can achieve decent fighting ability with it. Even if that was true (which I don't think it is, because I have seen no evidence to convince me of that), why waste your time?
  10. Dr._Tzun_Tzu is offline
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    It's pretty beat up, but it is a complete copy....

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 7:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: EBMAS WT/ Latosa Concepts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Okay, Yoda. :icon_roll

    That sounds a lot like an excuse to keep students dedicated to one school, to get their money.
    It can be used this way, no doubt. Another way is to charge so much, that once they start, they cann't afford any other schools, and even if they did, they will stay to try and recoup the initial investment. If you can pull off both, you might even be able to buy some wooden dummys and wrestling mat and even keep the lights on.

    Whats wrong with money, you a commie or something?

    But seriously. Wing Chun is very different then most other styles. As an example, It should start with some drills like turns and posture pulling, with 100% weight movement. If you are also learning Boxing or something that teaches 50/50 weight or front stance, the work in one cancels out the other. So any student in any art should focus on it alone for atleast the beginning.

    If a Sifu incorperates 50/50 because they never learned why it should be 100%, then you end up with a turn that only pivots in the center but does not move you out off the center over one leg. If you do this, 50/50, you should just stick with a real 50/50 stance and style to begin with. see what I am saying? Alot of Chun is basterdized into crap because of style mixing.

    Same with punch. The vertical thrust punch is its own thing. You can not combine it with regular punch theory. Its two different theorys and thus two different applications. If you mix and shake, you get ****.

    analogy: Put a motercycler racing champion in a car, send them around the track. or a car champ on a motorcycle. If they apply their respective track theory to the wrong vehicle, they will wreck. tThe body Mechanics are the vehicle. It may be subtle differences, but it is important.

    Now, that being said, the Best people we have in WT and EBMAS did another style Before WT. It is this reference point that allows them to understand whats going on. It is also Why EBMAS does Latosa Escrima Weapons System. Without this contary focus point, it is easy for a Chnner to lose their way. In WT you also are required to do another art at a certain point, to see the Wing Tsun in it, and to see the commonality in all Martial Arts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    So...we arive here again...can you show me some videos of Teh R3al _ing __un working in full contact fights against good fighters? It sounds like Teh ReA| art is so difficult and complex that almost no one can achieve decent fighting ability with it. Even if that was true (which I don't think it is, because I have seen no evidence to convince me of that), why waste your time?
    Full Contact fights eaah? Like Gracie vs Hughes? No, I cann't and I won't. Those only prove how good the fighter is. For Styles and techniques you need to look at the material, the training, the program, the teachers. I can show you the stuff we would like to do, that we would train to do if a Chunner decicded to trian for the specific rule set of a cage fight. But under any rule set it is not Wing CHun anymore, so this circular jerkfest will go on forever.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    ...art is so difficult and complex that almost no one can achieve decent fighting ability with it. Even if that was true (which I don't think it is, because I have seen no evidence to convince me of that), why waste your time?
    I am not sure if I read that right, but I think you mean that even if it could be made effective if one was smart enough, why risk it as most of us are not that smart? Why not do something easier to understand and proven in sport fighting, and then not risk wasting time?

    If that was your point, Then here is my reply. If you get with a program that is one of the 10%, it's not a risk at all, it works very fast for self defense, if you put the time in (2 or 3 classes a week). It is the teacher that must understand it, not the student. So the hard part is finding a good teacher. This is even harder if you have no MA experience.

    If they rush you through the forms and do mostly Chi Sau you are not in the right program. If the think Tradition is not to change, you are in the wrong progra, because the Wing Chun tradition is to always improve and adapt. If they teach you a form movement, and then do not give you the drill that goes with it emmidiatly, and then the application (that means live) training for that technique, you are in the wrong program. If you can not ask questions, if your instructor doesn't get training from someone above him, if you do not get a bruise or bloody lip sometimes, you are in the wrong program. I could go on.

    Doing it is not the complex part, that is no harder then BJJ(I mean Judo) or any legit FMA. The hard part is teaching it.

    "If anything is gained from this, it should be you both wanting to get better so you can make up for how crappy you are now." KidSpatula about the Sirc vs DTT Gong Sau Event
    Until the Bulltube is fixed:
    DTT vs Sirc

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