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  1. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2006 10:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We've had/have a few wrestlers at my school. I've never seen any pummelling going on, but that's probably because they knew better. They're pretty good, actually. One guy in particular advanced to blue belt in like a year.

    Then there's the Judo guy... power throws people on their backs when starting from the knees...
  2. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2006 10:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohff
    It reaks of jealousy.
    its cuz they're too scrawny and weak to 'muscle' techniques themlselves! (at least I am)

    also, the wrestlers only get owned up until they figure out how not to get guillotined.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
  3. Yock is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2006 10:44pm


     Style: Wrestling, Sub Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Something wrestling has that Jiu Jitsu doesn't is the sacrifice. By that I mean, in wrestling there are situations where if having somebody crank on your shoulder for a few seconds stops him from getting some points and winning the match, any wrestler worth a damn will tough it out. This just isn't possible in Jiu Jitsu because cranking on your shoulder and winning are one and the same. It's something a little different than ego, just force of habit.

    Maybe I haven't done Jiu Jitsu long enough, but another difference seems to be that all the moves designed to hurt seem to cripple you if applied with too much intensity. In wrestling you get put in a lot of situations that offer the choice of being in a lot of pain, or going to your back. Since most of these moves hurt but mainly rely on someone fighting to stay off of thier back, they can be applied with a higher degree of intensity before they become dangerous. I don't think a lot of wrestlers are expecting these submissions to sneak up on them without being cranked on for a while. Likewise, I think they expect to crank for a while before getting a submission.

    A similar story about wrestling: when I was wrestling in college, due to a few holes in our lineup we had a guy come in during my junior year who had never wrestled before. He had claimed to have 'done a little shootfighting' though. His entire offense from his feet consisted of something we dubbed The Flurry of Elbows. We told him a couple of times to knock it off, but he didn't. From then on out, whenever we wrestled him our strategy changed from the traditional takedown -> pin to just beating his ass. A lot of bully doubles and crossfaces. Snaps to gator rolls, you get the idea. We never cranked on his leg the wrong way, or did anything illegal, it's just that the points were no longer our highest priority. On a side note, this guy was only wrestling so he could put it on his med school application. When we found this out, we really started to hate him. That's another story.

    I can't speak for all wrestlers, and there are definitely going to be jerks no matter the group, but there is a difference in the feel of wrestling and Jiu Jistu that a lot of wrestlers aren't expecting when they make the transfer. Some wrestlers are looking to learn something new that they can apply thier skills to, but others are just looking for a way to continue wrestling. The latter will only hate jiu jitsu for not being wrestling.
  4. warnerj5000 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2006 10:58pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wasn't ever a wrestler but when I first started jujutsu I tried to power through everything and everyone probably thought I was trying to be a dick.

    Really I didn't know any better- no one told me to stop being a dick. The usual result of trying to use extra power was the guy I was rolling with using extra power right back, so I didn't notice anything was wrong.
  5. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2006 11:07pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yock
    Something wrestling has that Jiu Jitsu doesn't is the sacrifice. By that I mean, in wrestling there are situations where if having somebody crank on your shoulder for a few seconds stops him from getting some points and winning the match, any wrestler worth a damn will tough it out. This just isn't possible in Jiu Jitsu because cranking on your shoulder and winning are one and the same. It's something a little different than ego, just force of habit.

    Maybe I haven't done Jiu Jitsu long enough, but another difference seems to be that all the moves designed to hurt seem to cripple you if applied with too much intensity. In wrestling you get put in a lot of situations that offer the choice of being in a lot of pain, or going to your back. Since most of these moves hurt but mainly rely on someone fighting to stay off of thier back, they can be applied with a higher degree of intensity before they become dangerous. I don't think a lot of wrestlers are expecting these submissions to sneak up on them without being cranked on for a while. Likewise, I think they expect to crank for a while before getting a submission.
    Yes, that's the point of a submission. A person with a few months worth of BJJ under their belt will be able to tell if something will cripple him or just hurt. If it's just something that hurts, he can tough it out just as well. If it's an armbar or triangle, then there's no point. Toughing it out means you'll be sorry for it later.
  6. drew-jitsu is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/14/2006 11:18pm


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To the wrestler's credit, he did always wind up on top, but that didn't matter. He was subbed from the bottom every time. The problem with being a wrestler and going into a BJJ acadamy is that the round doesn't end if you have someone pinned. Wrestlers have no where near the submissions that BJJ does, so once they get on top it's like, "now what?" We have a lot of ex-wrestlers in our class who don't display the dickness of this guy. I have nothing against wrestlers. Just against those who go in thinking they're the **** and they have nothing to learn.
  7. Lohff is offline
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    Amateur Fighter

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2006 9:42am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by drew-jitsu
    Just against those who go in thinking they're the **** and they have nothing to learn.
    In my experience, those types are few and far between. I remember when I first got started, there was this one blue belt that would constantly jump guard. He tapped me quite a bit. One day I told myself I wasn't going to get tapped, and glued myself to his hips inside his closed guard. Now, admittedly, I didn't do a damn thing, but I didn't get tapped either. He was furious, and asked me repeatedly why I was stalling. I didn't respond.

    His actions during the roll are part of what pisses me off about the bjj culture sometimes. When watching a bjj video, do you freak out more about Marcelo Garcia's beautiful X-Guard sweep, or a nice outside single by Jeff Monson? They are both worth the same in competition, yet more people freak about the sweep. I think its worth remembering, that BJJ matches end up on the ground, but start on the feet.
  8. frodo is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2006 12:14pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohff
    I am a wrestler and a BJJ player. Sometimes I still get pissed when I hear other BJJ players talk **** on wrestlers. It reaks of jealousy. In short, I'd rather be a spastic wrestler than a guard jumping bjj newbie. At least I had a semblance of ground control.
    I was a wrestler in high school, and I agree with the BJJers because I started with a wrestler's spastic mentality. I laugh at myself and who I was and the futility of my attitude. I don't smell any jealousy - what is there to be jealous about? I find more and confusion and arrogance among wrestlers like us, but that's normal. As a wrestler, wrestlers are some of the biggest jagoffs around. :thefinger

    If I win, I want to win on my opponent's terms. Yes, this cost me sometimes in competition. But I have a hard head... That's why I don't care one way or the other about guard jumping, even though I don't pull guard. (Well, I do pull guard sometimes in practice, but I also pull bottom-side mount, give my opponent my back, and other silly things.)

    In fact, pulling guard is one way in competition for someone who is strong there to impose their game on their opponent. Same thing with those who get the takedown and let their opponent back up in wrestling. I never did either out of pride, but I don't think less of anyone who does. It is just their philosophy and their game plan.
  9. Yock is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2006 12:21pm


     Style: Wrestling, Sub Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Phalange
    Yes, that's the point of a submission. A person with a few months worth of BJJ under their belt will be able to tell if something will cripple him or just hurt. If it's just something that hurts, he can tough it out just as well. If it's an armbar or triangle, then there's no point. Toughing it out means you'll be sorry for it later.
    Since most wrestlers aren't expecting this on their first time out, perhaps it would be better to let them know when to tap rather than breaking some joints right off the bat.
  10. Poop Loops is offline
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    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    6/15/2006 1:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yock
    Since most wrestlers aren't expecting this on their first time out, perhaps it would be better to let them know when to tap rather than breaking some joints right off the bat.
    Holy ****, I think you might be on to something. I better tell my instructor to start telling people "ok, this is an armbar. If I crank it too far, your elbow will go the wrong way. Tap when you feel pressure, not when it starts hurting. It's safer this way."

    Instead of just screaming in their face for 5 minutes.

    Wow, how come nobody's ever thought of that before? Seems like such a simple concept, but despite that fact and also despite the facts that my instructor comes from a wrestling background (or at least, knows wrestling), has been doing BJJ for over 10 years, and we've had numerous wrestlers join the class, NOBODY has ever thought to tell them "Hey, this could cripple you. You should tap."

    Thank you for letting me know that. I am forever in your debt.
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