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  1. elipson is offline
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    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2006 10:58pm

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     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Osoto Gari setup

    So how does everyone set this one up? I've always had trouble doing this when sparring decent ppl (although it works ok on random ppl and total newbs), so I'm wondering about different ways of setting it up.

    I know that its really common for great Judo players to use it. We're a JJJ/BJJ school, and we don't train it actually all that much.
  2. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/11/2006 11:40pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We drilled a variation on Saturday where you pull the person forward so they step, then pull down on the side of their stepping foot and drive the other side up. This wheel-turning motion will load them onto the foot they stepped with and you can bring your body across and reap it.

    Personally, I hate this throw because I never hit it and always want to turn it into a forward reap. That drill helped a lot though, so give it a shot.
  3. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/11/2006 11:56pm


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson
    So how does everyone set this one up? I've always had trouble doing this when sparring decent ppl (although it works ok on random ppl and total newbs), so I'm wondering about different ways of setting it up.

    I know that its really common for great Judo players to use it. We're a JJJ/BJJ school, and we don't train it actually all that much.
    OK, I'll bite, from an academic point:

    1) Kuzushi (off-balancing)
    Assuming you are going for your left sided OSOTO-GARI, you use your left hand to pull the uke downwards and the right hand to push him upwards. (Remember to torgue his body). The objective should be to make uke stand on his right toes (break his balance first)

    2) Tsukuri (body positioning)
    When you have break his balance, move in your body. Your body should be very close to uke's body, sticking to it. This will prevent uke from escaping.

    3) Kake (Throwing)
    Swing your right leg forward, and then quickly and decisively pull back, reaping uke's calf, back of the knee or thigh or whatever opportunity hands to you. This will reap uke's right leg under him. For better result, as your reap, push your body forward.

    Although I have broken down this technique into three parts, it is mainly done as a method of explaination, in actual fact, you do all these simultaneously, to prevent uke from countering or escaping.

    GMW

    P/S Btw OSOTO-GARI has a very similar execution flair to aikido's Tenchi-nage and. The above techniques uses the same mechanical exploitation. No chi, no magic pants, just pure mechanics.
  4. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 7:54am

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A entry we do is to step far to the side you want to reap. While some argue that this is a bit TOO much, it gives you a better basic idea of the kuzushi. It's NOT as much the way a lot of people teach it; back and to the side. It's almost exclusively to the side, just to get all the weight on that one foot.

    With a typical grip, step one step sideways to your left, pulling down and left on his arm and up and left on his collar. You can do a wheel like motion like Shuma said, but to me the way I get my body turned makes it trickier for me to step in afterwards. Remember to keep him close. You are not so much using arm strength as you are using your torso. The arms control the direction, the torso and hips provide the power. You can then eiter step forward, or turn both him and you and sweep him sideways. Some guys might look at me wierd now and say "that doesn't sound like it would work in randori at all" and I wish I could say "no no I totally rock at it" But Osoto gari is not a very strong throw of mine. One of my instructors is the bomb with it though. I should ask him today, there's a class devoted only to teh throwing.

    Don't START to the side, that's pointless. Do uchikomi even though getting the whole throw might seem like the way to go. Kuzushi and entry are the most important parts of the throw, the rest is just physics. A throw is never getting your opponent down, it's you helping them down. You are doing all the work. There is a lot of motion before a throw. Any hip or shoulder throw illustrates it better. You move a lot for very "little" so to speak. The throw comes from your movement, not from forcing your opponent etc. But I'm talking a lot of bull not relevant to the actual technical issue. Like I said, Osoto gari is not a strong throw of mine. I prefer Tani otoshi or drop seoi.

    My suggestion is to try some different methods as they are mentioned here. JJ is very personal imho. You have to find the ways you kind of "connect" with.
    More human than human is our motto.
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 8:20am

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One of the things my coach used to stress that helped me a lot is chest contact. We drill the entry a lot where we are hitting uke with our chest/shoulder. The key is to make sure you are hitting them and not pulling them into you.

    That forward pressure and contact makes the rest of the throw much easier and by contacting with your body you eliminate using your arms too much.

    The other key element that I see a lot of people miss is finishing the reap. You never want to plant your foot and be pushing them over it. You need to reap all the way through in one motion and finish with your attacking leg high.

    A good drill for that movement is to practice with no Uke. When I practice the movement I touch my lapel hand to the floor and lift my reaping leg up higher than my hips.
  6. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 8:23am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only time I have successfully used an Osoto during fully resistant training is as a counter.

    This is because, IMO, the MOST important part of the entry and set-up for Osoto is the kuzushi. If you try and force the throw, i.e., exploding to entry prior to kuzushi, you are begging to get reversed. Thus the set-up takes a bit of jockeying for me and is used more effectively as a reversal for someone who over commits simply because the over-committal gives you your kusushi without telegraphing your throw.

    IMO for Osoto, 1) Kuzushi, like previously stated, push/pull, 2) The reap, I personally reap above the knee rather than down by the calf (I have found that people get lazy and turn it into a "tripping" movement rather than a full sweep if they focus too low).

    I agree with Fanatical though, JJ and Judo, IMO, are very personal in that you have to adapt the techniques to your particular body type and athletic abilities, so an Osoto, or most other throws for that matter, will look different from person to person
  7. Bang! is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 9:07am

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Golden Jonas is right. I always tell people that one of the most common ways to get this throw is to discover that your opponent has tried to do it to you without any offset, and to simply turn your hips and put them down in turn. The funny thing about this throw is that -- as difficult as it can be to perform -- it's probably the simplest to understand from a mechanical standpoint. That means that a lot of people try it without offsetting you first; they just wrap their leg around yours and hope for the best. Don't be that guy.

    I've had a fair bit of success using this throw as part of combinations, but am very seldom able to just walk in and hit it off the bat. As far as those combinations go, I like to hook the inside of the near leg to get the person to step fully onto the far leg. Moving into them and using the leg I've just tried to hook with, I switch to the reap.

    Another one I get is a follow up to a failed outside-to-inside sweep. If the person is off-balanced enough to fall back a bit, but isn't going down, I'll often chase that same leg, switching my hips for the reap.

    In both cases, I will elevate the oppsite side of the body in order to force weight onto the leg I'm about to reap.
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 9:56am

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can get Osoto Gari as an attack pretty easily. If you only get it as a counter it's because you are not being aggresive enough. It is a really aggressive throw and undercommiting will get you countered all day long. If I let go of the person after the Kuzushi and they aren't really fighting they are going to fall down. If your Kuzushi isn't upsetting their balance that much you aren't being aggressive enough, IMO.

    This is how you commit to an Osoto.

    Last edited by Aesopian; 6/13/2006 11:51am at .
  9. Ryno is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 2:49pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, getting them off that step really does help. I tend to nail it if I get a really good tug on them right out of the gates, or after I've set them up with a failed sweep.

    It really is a nice move for big guys if you go in hard and commit to it. I've been sticking it a lot lately.

    Be sure to check out this thread as well: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ighlight=osoto
    Last edited by Ryno; 6/12/2006 2:53pm at .
  10. elipson is offline
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    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2006 8:35pm

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     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sweet, good advice on this. I'm gonna try some of this tonight. For a while I used to set myself up for Osoto and then counter it when someone took the bait. This tactic worked less against wrestlers, the slippery bastards always just grab the leg :P
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