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  1. vigilus is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 7:50am


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I remember in the early nineties when the UFC just started out like a "tough man" contest and that is all it really was in the beginning. You had stand up fighters pummeling each other, karate dudes kicking each other, etc. Then the sport started to organize itself with the gracies, shamrocks, and the like with the grappling wrestling, submission stuff. It seems like they figured out a formula and stuck to it. Just my observations. With any sport when it grows, in comes the prize fights and paychecks.
    I get the same feeling, wether that's a good thing or bad thing I can't say.

    I loved watching UFC when it first came out. Guys pounding the piss out of each other. I loved watching the different fighters with different styles of martial art go at it and seeing which style works against which, and which style sucks. Me and my buddies would watch the stuff, argue about what works and what doesn't then try it on each other.
    I can't put it into words very well but lately the whole thing just seems commercialized. Obviously where there is money to be made, people will try and make money off it. You can't stop that.

    If I had to use an example it would be the survivor island series. When that first came out it was novel, new and I admit pretty fun to watch. It got old fast and by the 3rd or 4th series you could see the game being replaaced with playing the game.

    In the shows that followed it was plainly obvious to see it becomming more and more commercialized. There was more talking and less action. Same with UFC now I find. You go to watch a match and it's a re-re-rerun with 3 hours of talking and interviews and a 7 minute fight. Now their jumping on the reality TV bandwagon with the 'next ufc fighter' or whatever which killed it for me. It reminds me too much of americans next top model. I won't even touch on the know-it-alls and instant experts about all things BJJ UFC and fighting.

    UFC is still fun to watch but the old big piece of steak that it was shrunk a hell of a lot and there is a lot of bullshit filler (like vegtables!) on the side of your plate now.
  2. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

    Didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downwards

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 8:53am


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltySpark
    I get the same feeling, wether that's a good thing or bad thing I can't say.

    I loved watching UFC when it first came out. Guys pounding the piss out of each other. I loved watching the different fighters with different styles of martial art go at it and seeing which style works against which, and which style sucks. Me and my buddies would watch the stuff, argue about what works and what doesn't then try it on each other.
    I can't put it into words very well but lately the whole thing just seems commercialized. Obviously where there is money to be made, people will try and make money off it. You can't stop that.

    If I had to use an example it would be the survivor island series. When that first came out it was novel, new and I admit pretty fun to watch. It got old fast and by the 3rd or 4th series you could see the game being replaaced with playing the game.

    In the shows that followed it was plainly obvious to see it becomming more and more commercialized. There was more talking and less action. Same with UFC now I find. You go to watch a match and it's a re-re-rerun with 3 hours of talking and interviews and a 7 minute fight. Now their jumping on the reality TV bandwagon with the 'next ufc fighter' or whatever which killed it for me. It reminds me too much of americans next top model. I won't even touch on the know-it-alls and instant experts about all things BJJ UFC and fighting.

    UFC is still fun to watch but the old big piece of steak that it was shrunk a hell of a lot and there is a lot of bullshit filler (like vegtables!) on the side of your plate now.
    First of all, the UFC couldn't have survived as an underground no-rules thing. They had to clean up and play nice with the athletic commissions in order to survive.

    You can't honestly say that, especially in retrospect, you're surprised the sport went the way it did; this is especially true after watching Hughes vs. Gracie. To be a complete fighter you need to be skilled in standup, clinch, and ground, and the ideal delivery system for each of these ranges will pretty much look the same. The "different styles" thing couldn't have lasted very long.

    The UFC has to make money in order to stay afloat. Dana White and the Ferttittas aren't doing this out of the kindness of their hearts; something tells me that they expect to get paid. This means advertising in the ring and all that other stuff. The Ultimate Fighter, and any other UFC on basic cable, is basically just a teaser to get people hooked so they'll start buying pay-per-views.

    The interviews are sort of annoying, especially because Joe Rogan gets under my skin sometimes, but I'm sure there's some down time between the fights (cleaning the mats, stuff like that). It's like all the stats they show in football between downs.

    I don't think the old fights were more fun to watch at all. I watch them and I see either two guys who have no clue how to fight in an MMA environment with their thumbs up their asses or I see one guy with no clue how to fight in an MMA environment getting choked out in 2 seconds by Royce.

    All that being said, I do hate two things about the modern UFC, and they're linked: rules limiting groundfighting, and the fucking fans. American MMA fans don't want to see grappling because they don't understand it and think it looks "ghey." The worst was when everyone started booing when the fight would go to the ground. They changed the rules so that the fights are more entertaining. I know why they did it, and I understand why they had to, but I'm still not happy. I wish they didn't have to pander to the lowest common denominator just to sell tickets.
    Last edited by IzzyDaHedgehog; 6/18/2006 8:56am at .
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  3. Red Rocket is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 9:25am


     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree, I also hate the fans.


    Commercialized? Maybe....But like everyone else said here, they need money to put on this stuff. Though I do think they have gone a bit overboard, but no more then anything else in society. Watch a football game (even a highschool one), you get just as many products rammed up your ass.
  4. vigilus is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 11:02am


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can't honestly say that, especially in retrospect, you're surprised the sport went the way it did; this is especially true after watching Hughes vs. Gracie. To be a complete fighter you need to be skilled in standup, clinch, and ground, and the ideal delivery system for each of these ranges will pretty much look the same. The "different styles" thing couldn't have lasted very long.

    The worst was when everyone started booing when the fight would go to the ground. They changed the rules so that the fights are more entertaining. I know why they did it, and I understand why they had to, but I'm still not happy. I wish they didn't have to pander to the lowest common denominator just to sell tickets.

    You're exactly right. I'm not surprised it went the way it did, I'm disapointed all the same. The retard fans (as opposed to the normal fans) are the ones that play a big role in ruining it.

    You need money to survive --> more money from the lowest common denominator --> Standards are lowered.
  5. rino86 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 11:21am

    supporting member
     Style: Bjj/Machado/Pittman

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The old UFCs have a lot of downtime and blather too. I recently rewatched UFC 1 and 2 and after fast forwarding through filler theres probably only like 30 minutes of real fighting.
  6. IzzyDaHedgehog is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 12:27pm


     Style: Ex-TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GuiltySpark
    You're exactly right. I'm not surprised it went the way it did, I'm disapointed all the same. The retard fans (as opposed to the normal fans) are the ones that play a big role in ruining it.
    In the first part of what you were quoting, I wasn't talking about the sport changing because of the fans or because of commercialization. I was talking about the fighters figuring out that only training in one style wasn't enough, and that the whole concept of "style" in the traditional sense is bullshit anyway. Good MMA striking, whether it comes from a Karate, boxing, Muay Thai, or Kung Fu base, will end up looking very much the same. Likewise for grappling.

    "Style vs. Style" did not survive because the idea is inherently flawed.
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  7. Shaolinz is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/18/2006 12:35pm


     Style: Muay Thai , BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by IzzyDaHedgehog
    "Style vs. Style" did not survive because the idea is inherently flawed.
    This is why I'm an MMA nutrider. Anyone person who wants to consider themselves a real martial artist or real fight (oo t3h real MAist), should be ready to learn from anyone who can beat them. If I get taken down by a technique, I want to know what the hell it was. If I get submitted, then I want to see how he did it. The same SHOULD have and did happen in the UFC, arts actually faught each other in a real setting (real as your going to get without t3h eye gouges) and realized they have weaknesses. The real fighters and martial artists of the bunch actually learned from this and improved their abilities. The jackoffs said "my TKD is t3h real _ing _un" and did nothing but bitch.

    Evolution of the Arts. It HAD to happen if these guys were actually serious about fighting.
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