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  1. DaChinkOfSteel is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 7:38am


     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MEGALEF
    I don't see that sweep working against any awake person with a basic grasp of balance.
    I noticed that also...it was kind of a cross between the basic scissor sweep and the "armbar" sweep (without underhooking the leg and properly trapping the arm)....so I dunno, maybe against somebody who's untrained on the ground and doesn't instinctively know to brace with their hand or have good posture, it may work...

    I don't know how much those guys were resisting, either...
  2. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 7:41am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I find that most people pull guard so they can bitch when they get slammed. Usually these people have never sparred from anywhere but their knee's in class and have no clinch skills at all. Pulling guard could be useful if you know you are out classed in the standup, but seriously, its a cop out.

    But maybe thats cause my favorite position is knee on belly and I can't do that if I'm pulling guard.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:11am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wouldn't pull guard in a self-defense situation, on hard floor/ground unless I'm in such a situation that I cannot do a throw, something resembling a seio, osoto, a hip throw, a rip, just fucking something!!! If the attacker have a bit of a clue, he can easily decide to go limp and drop himself on top of me, slamming my back or pelvis on the floor... ouch!!!

    If the defending person decides to go down with his attacker, he would be better off trying a sacrifice throw rather than just pullilng the person onto his guard IMO.

    Also, these dudes need to work on their sweeps. They seem to be doing drills with little resistance from their partners... and that's fine if they want to work on the details... but in that case, they really need to work on the details of their sweeps. No one is going to roll over like that in a real situation.

    Punching from the bottom is dubious... BUT a good, powerfull elbow could do nasty wonders (see David Loiseau and Joe Riggs).

    To their credits, at least they are trying to be aware of the ground. They'll get the right ideas as they experiment.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

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    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. Killing Moon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:11am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    That was a funny video. If you are going to drill something on the ground, isolate and drill. If you are going to roll, roll. But please dont do compliant drills that go beyond just armbar, reset, armbar. We dont need grappling kata. Learn your techniques, then spar.

    And guard jumping is for pussys. Real men learn how to throw people.
    Ahem, there's nothing wrong with Jumping Guard at all.

    Genki Sudo has done it plenty of times and he's a great fighter. Everyone has their own manner of technique within grappling, just as everyone has their own method of striking technique.

    Saying that this is the ONLY way to do one thing effectively is incredibly ignorant for any form of fighting. If it works, then it works and Jumping Guard, like anything else is based on the effectiveness of your placement, speed and accuracy.

    Only if you're out of shape and don't have much agility to support the manuever, would it make sense for you to stake a claim like that.
  5. Fantasy Warrior is offline
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    Misguided style basher

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kata

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well at first it looked Alive, like 30% resistane, but then they did the exact same move 3 times right down to slap-slap-but-get up-stomp... which is silly. Even low-resistance drilling should at least be goal orientated rather than 100% choreographed IMO. And jumping into guard in what was clearly meant to be SD training??? - surely the "attacker" should really be bulldozering you down before you go for that as a defence so the "feed" was wrong too. Bahhh Humbug,,,
    You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
    FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM

    just die already.
    Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM


    Aikidokkkkakkakakakaaaaa
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  6. FictionPimp is offline

    Sexiest Punching Bag Alive

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:37am


     Style: BJJ/Judo/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Ahem, there's nothing wrong with Jumping Guard at all.

    Genki Sudo has done it plenty of times and he's a great fighter. Everyone has their own manner of technique within grappling, just as everyone has their own method of striking technique.

    Saying that this is the ONLY way to do one thing effectively is incredibly ignorant for any form of fighting. If it works, then it works and Jumping Guard, like anything else is based on the effectiveness of your placement, speed and accuracy.

    Only if you're out of shape and don't have much agility to support the manuever, would it make sense for you to stake a claim like that.
    I was being an ass. Obviously not only pussys pull guard. But I still think it is a bitch move. Every single time someone has pulled guard on me I have slammed them as hard as I can. And usually they bitch about it. But that is what is going to happen if you pull guard. If they wouldn't bitch, I guess I wouldn't bitch.
  7. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:45am


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Ahem, there's nothing wrong with Jumping Guard at all.

    Genki Sudo has done it plenty of times and he's a great fighter. Everyone has their own manner of technique within grappling, just as everyone has their own method of striking technique.

    Saying that this is the ONLY way to do one thing effectively is incredibly ignorant for any form of fighting. If it works, then it works and Jumping Guard, like anything else is based on the effectiveness of your placement, speed and accuracy.

    Only if you're out of shape and don't have much agility to support the manuever, would it make sense for you to stake a claim like that.
    There is something wrong with jumping guard. Most of time, pulling guard should generally be reserved as last option during takedown by receiving person. If shoot, sprawl, if throw, try counter, at worst try to avoid just because of positioning it'll end up in. If you sprawl but doesn't work well u can still pull guard. If you try counter but fail, you can still pull guard...well most of time.

    Pulling guard puts you in bad positioning. even if you favor the bottom, being on top provides much more options and it generally takes a much better grappler to win from bottom position.

    As for genki sudo, you really can't use that guy. Techniques he prefers to use and favors are pretty unorthodox. Most guys can't pull those techs out and win match. Spinning back fists, flying triangles, etc. They're low % move.
  8. Killing Moon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:46am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by FictionPimp
    I was being an ass. Obviously not only pussys pull guard. But I still think it is a bitch move. Every single time someone has pulled guard on me I have slammed them as hard as I can. And usually they bitch about it. But that is what is going to happen if you pull guard. If they wouldn't bitch, I guess I wouldn't bitch.
    Well getting slammed is a predictable risk, I would assume. It's more of a "sacrifice move", as my old Kwoon used to call it. Pretty much, a high risk manuever that's about 50/50 success to get you out of uncontrollable situations.

    If you're skilled at it, it's more unexpected. But like anything else, trying not to telegraph the movement comes into play as well.

    Of course if you see that your leverage is failing at the last minute, you could always, oh I dunno'....let go.
  9. babo78 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:53am


     Style: Yudo, Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Well getting slammed is a predictable risk, I would assume. It's more of a "sacrifice move", as my old Kwoon used to call it. Pretty much, a high risk manuever that's about 50/50 success to get you out of uncontrollable situations.

    If you're skilled at it, it's more unexpected. But like anything else, trying not to telegraph the movement comes into play as well.

    Of course if you see that your leverage is failing at the last minute, you could always, oh I dunno'....let go.
    In case of this vid, there wasn't a need to pull guard from start even as "sacrifice move" at all. There was ample time to attempt throw before pulling guard.

    As for letting go...you can let go but they don't have to so you will still get slammed regardless.
  10. Killing Moon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 8:53am


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    There is something wrong with jumping guard. Most of time, pulling guard should generally be reserved as last option during takedown by receiving person. If shoot, sprawl, if throw, try counter, at worst try to avoid just because of positioning it'll end up in. If you sprawl but doesn't work well u can still pull guard. If you try counter but fail, you can still pull guard...well most of time.
    Understandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    Pulling guard puts you in bad positioning. even if you favor the bottom, being on top provides much more options and it generally takes a much better grappler to win from bottom position.
    This is true. Plus the ability to absorb blows well. Trying to catch a hyped mounter from the bottom is hard enough. The only viable options seem to be a triangle hold, or some sort of key lock with the offending arm.

    Quote Originally Posted by babo78
    As for genki sudo, you really can't use that guy. Techniques he prefers to use and favors are pretty unorthodox. Most guys can't pull those techs out and win match. Spinning back fists, flying triangles, etc. They're low % move.
    Only low percentage if that not what you specialize in.
    Remember, anything can be effective and high percentage if that's what you practice on continuously. Things are only unorthodox because they stray from conventional methods. After awhile, they become a standard and not labeled as "unorthodox" anymore.

    After that factor, the weakness becomes a strength, thereby making it a high percentage move.
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