For Chunners and Ninjas

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:11am

So, here's where I'm coming from:

I've met pretty skilled exponents of both Wing Chun and Bujinkan stuff, but the contexts in which I've done both have been similar enough to note. I've crossed hands with a few Wing Chun guys who were under Brian Lewadny and some BBTers under Court Elliot.

The main thing in both cases is that a lot of practitioners were really variable in terms of their quality but there were a few who stood out, either as instructors or as students.

In Court Elliot's case, I actually witnessed him deal with someone who came into the school and called him out. He handily pinned and submitted the guy. On the other hand, some of his students were talkers and compliance junkies. With the 'chunners, *most* of them were talkers, but a few (usually those with outside MA experience) could make their stuff work pretty well.

This brings me to what I see as a common problem in the cultures of both arts. WC and BBT are inclusive. Many schools seem to be happy to give people skill based on what they put into it without even leading by example.

Now I don't really mind what people do with their training. It's more important to me practice properly myself and surround myself with people who are willing to do it than to worry about everybody in the "family." But there *do* need to be positive examples out there. So where does that put these two arts? Like I said, I've seen decent practitioners, but they are accorded almost no prestige or comment in their systems. What should they do?

1) Wing Chun is hampered by the politics and -- I **** you not -- the bastardized romanizations used by exponents. When you need 3-4 different search strings to look up examples of an art, that's a problem for anyone who wants to see live training.

2) BBT seems to be hampered by the active interference of some of its high-level practitioners. Hatsumi's an old man who's probably earned the right to do as much compliant "play" as he wants, but his cultists are actively destroying students' potential.

Shinbushi's school has a sparsely populated "taijutsu alive" locator on his site and that looks like a good start, but there aren't any clips to show what it actually looks like. I found that kind of disappointing. WC sites keep showcasing chi sao play.

So I guess what I'm saying is that it should be in the interests of practitioners of both to do the following:

A) Gather under a common umbrella based on how you train. I fired up Google and looked for full-contact WC references and they're there, but they are so scattered and poorly maintained that it would be a challenge to present any comprehensive examples of live training at all. In BBT's case, expanding on Shinbushi's efforst and giving it its own site, brand and opportunities or communication would be a great thing to see.

B) Show what the delivery system is capable of live. WC videos are 99% Chi Sao. BBT is 99% compliant kata performance and of that, 75% of it is with an extremely weak uke.

Give each art's live-training advocates a site, a forum and a clips archive and the good exponents of those arts would really step into the forefront. So how about it?

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:14am

ROFL you said "cross hands". TeeHee

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:39am

congrats on not adding anything new. One day I will write Fucking essay on why the Bujinkan Sucks, hell I'll even go why they don't do the Ryu-ha they claim.

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:44am

Originally Posted by eyebeams

1) Wing Chun is hampered by the politics and -- I **** you not -- the bastardized romanizations used by exponents. When you need 3-4 different search strings to look up examples of an art, that's a problem for anyone who wants to see live training.

Unless all good wing chun is done under one spelling then this is irrelevant.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:47am

Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath

Unless all good wing chun is done under one spelling then this is irrelevant.

Why is this?

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:49am

Originally Posted by pl4zM4

congrats on not adding anything new. One day I will write Fucking essay on why the Bujinkan Sucks, hell I'll even go why they don't do the Ryu-ha they claim.

I hope your command of English improves in the interim, as given by both the phrase "writing Fucking essay," and the fact that you did not apparently read the whole thing, which is not about those arts sucking at all.

**Shuma-Gorath** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:52am

Originally Posted by eyebeams

Why is this?

The search string argument itself is irrelevant to begin with; most search engines let you OR the terms together anyway. But if I search for "wing chun" and don't find anything good then I have no reason to believe "ving tsun" will yield significantly different results, given prior knowledge that they are not two different things.

**shinbushi** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 10:16am

Originally Posted by eyebeams

So, here's where I'm coming from:

Shinbushi's school has a sparsely populated "taijutsu alive" locator on his site and that looks like a good start, but there aren't any clips to show what it actually looks like. I found that kind of disappointing. WC sites keep showcasing chi sao play.

Maybe because I want people who are interested to come by and try a class. :icon_wink
Actually as I want to do a DVD for the taijutsu community like what SBG did for JKD with their 1st tape, I need to get sparring footage. When I get some taped I will put it on youtube and google, and I want Bullshido feedback.
I am currently getting in shape( Road work and bad) for my TBA level one test so that is a priority. Plus with the new gym I am still getting it built out. The only vid I currently have is from when we 1st switched over to aliveness and tey are both low Kyus so looking back it is bad.
I was disappointed that of all the dojos I invited to join (10 in all) only the one's I listed.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 10:28am

Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath

The search string argument itself is irrelevant to begin with; most search engines let you OR the terms together anyway. But if I search for "wing chun" and don't find anything good then I have no reason to believe "ving tsun" will yield significantly different results, given prior knowledge that they are not two different things.

Well, you're not particularly inclined to try, are you?

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 10:34am

Originally Posted by eyebeams

I hope your command of English improves in the interim, as given by both the phrase "writing Fucking essay," and the fact that did not apparently read the whole thing, which is not about those arts sucking at all.

My english sucks, and typing with one hand is making it worse :(