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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 2:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pre-reg only for any tournament with more than 200 people.

    **** you Brian Cimmins (GQwest last november) for thinking taking in ~500 people was okay because it lined your pockets more.
  2. Fighting Cephalopod is offline
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    Submitting 1d6 Investigators per round

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 3:05pm

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     Style: ZHOO ZHITSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by odacon
    I would have thought a big competion like grapplers quest would be spread over more than one day, allowing you to fight half your fight one day, and half the next.
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahano.

    Short answer - doing a two day tournament means renting the venue for two days instead of one, so no organizer is going to do so unless they get so big that doing everything in one day is completely and totally unmanageable. Hell, I've done weigh-ins and scorekeeping at the last five GQs or so - Doing everything in one day /is/ completely unmanageable, but it happens anyway, because Brian (and, for that matter, Kipp, and every other tourney organizer) isn't gonna take that second day financial hit unless he feels he absolutely has to in order to keep people from not showing up/demanding refunds en masse.
  3. Odacon is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 3:47pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair enough, I just thought that because it's such a large competion with a large amount of revenue generated by registrations/spectators that it could afford to be a weekend long thing.
  4. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 4:14pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Think about a division with 10 guys. How many fights is that total? In a round robin that is what...45 matches total? 5 minutes each WITH TIME LIMIT. That is like 4 hours or so if you run those matches almost back to back. Can you imagine if it was a 30 min time limit sub only?

    That's one division.

    Only about 50-100 more of those divisions or so at the big events.
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 4:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fatherdog
    Brian (and, for that matter, Kipp, and every other tourney organizer) isn't gonna take that second day financial hit unless he feels he absolutely has to in order to keep people from not showing up/demanding refunds en masse.
    After the november grappler's quest west I know lots of people boycotting until he either gets rid of the gi brackets, gets a bigger venue or goes to two days.
  6. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 4:45pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Brian banks on GQ.

    Competitors are paying anywhere between 60-140 bucks a pop. That does not include merchandising (DVD sales & items at event), vendors, sponsors, etc.

    Everyone wants to talk about the venue. The venue. The venue. For the last 6 years its been done at Durango High School. My wife is a PE teacher at a school in Vegas so I know EXACTLY how much that costs. It isn't what you think.

    If the event goes to 2 days and even if when they go to a bigger venue (Cimmins said the next GQ would be in a new place) it won't make the impact you are thinking. It will never be perfect and allow for this mythical 30 min, sub only round robin tournaments. We compete under the inherent limitations of our sport.
  7. Aesopian is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 4:48pm

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Aesopian.com 

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yrkoon, any comment on the SBG rules?
  8. Bang! is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 4:54pm

    supporting memberBullshido Newbie
     Style: Wu Style TCC + BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My experience is somewhat unusual in that I was exposed to the type of competition ruleset Aesopian described above before I ever saw a tournament where scores were kept. Initially, I thought that points were a horrible idea that could only lead to stalling and other shenanigans, but began to come around somewhat as I better understood positional advantages.

    Right now, I still see the value of awarding points for positional advantages, but only if you're actively trying to engage and finish. So what's the lesser of the evils?

    I watched Pride Bushido last night and noticed that the refs were handing out green cards (10% off your purse for inactivity or perceived stalling) like candy. It got me thinking that it might be interesting for refs in BJJ competitions to deduct, say, a point for perceived stalling. If this happened every 30-45 seconds, it might eradicate some of the issues described above, particularly stalling post-takedown and stalling with a point advantage.

    One might argue that this is very subjective, and requires a highly competent ref to apply it properly, but the same is true for everything else. At least this permutation of rules would keep things moving and reward people for trying to finish, while still acknowledging positional domination in those cases where a submission doesn't take place.
  9. feedback is offline
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    UAAAH!

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 5:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I did the SBG sub-league, there were 4 minute time limits, at which point both competitors are awarded 1 point each (instead of the usual 3 for the winner, 0 for the loser)
    Tough is not how you act, tough is how you train.
  10. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2006 5:20pm

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     Style: 5.56

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aesopian,

    I like the rules. I think it definately has potential. Unfortunately it can't really be done on a large scale IMO. They average about 100 competitors per event. Not bad but if you said you won a tourney that had 100 competitors spread across the division you might be thought of as week. Not like say....GQ intermediate where you may have 20 guys in your division.

    It is WAY WAY WAY better than the format of Nevertap where no points are scored and goes to a judges decision based on submission attempts. In that situation you have to wonder what is a legit attempt, and what merit certain subs have.

    They had one rule I didn't like. No groin touching. I mean WTF?

    The only other thing I thought was weird was to have the finals decided at another time. That is kinda strange. It would give the best guys a chance at a fresh match without prior match fatigue being a factor.

    I would definately try it out. As long as they didn't try to pull some ISWA insurance association membership crap.
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