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  1. VikingPower is offline
    VikingPower's Avatar

    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 10:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    lol, are you serious?
    It was called "awareness training." I called it idiocy, changed, and went to the bar next door.
  2. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 10:40pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    To those that train bujinkan with alivness;

    I never trained bujinkan alive so maybe you can help me out here. If you decided to do alive wristlock drills wouldn't you be there for ages trying to score this low percentage technique? If you stick to the high percentage techs is training bujinkan alive almost excatly like muay thai and judo? I mean, judo is bascily alive Japanese jujitsu.
    One of the things I've been itching to do a lot more of is working on some of the kihon from the clinch. Muso dori can be pretty effective if you pull it off right, as can ura oni kudaki but it's a bit trickier. I haven't experimented too much with ganseki nage from it yet and only managed to pull out te makura once (the Nagato version that Shinbushi shared with me, which doesn't involve putting your hand behind your head like you're doing the Macarena). I need more willing partners though to work a lot more on it.
  3. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    May 2005
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    1,187

    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 11:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the BJK.
    Standing locks on an opponent is pretty fucking hard to do so those wrist twists and things like that go to **** until in close or on the ground. The throws usually need to be taught in a dynamic method so they can be pulled off with resistance but they usually need some modification.

    There are times where the takedowns end up transforming into something that has a wrestling methodology, BJK says that it is shifting to the dead side of the opponent but it is usually just a peekout done poorly. Other than that, standing punches and kicks that would end getting you killed in a MT or Kickboxing comp.

    All of those movements can be drilled until they are good but there is no difference from the basics than what could be learned in other martial arts. There really is nothing unique once the weapons are lost from the syllabus............. There is just a lot of elements but none are perfected.

    Worst case scenerio is the BJK turns into WT with trapping like bullshit and horribly unrealistic punching.
  4. Rubber Tanto is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2006
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    907

    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 11:14pm


     Style: Bujutsu / Muay Thai / MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    To those that train bujinkan with alivness;

    I never trained bujinkan alive so maybe you can help me out here. If you decided to do alive wristlock drills wouldn't you be there for ages trying to score this low percentage technique?
    Well you kind of have me curious here, because I would never go into a fight.fully resistant sparring match thinking "Okay, when he punches I'm gonna do (add wristlock of choice here) on him." Sure during your practice as you build up resistance you may spen time working on a wristlock, grab whatever trying to see how you can make it work...but when training alive and unscripted you should be looking to just wait for the OPPORTUNITY to arise to put on a certain technique. For all you know the opportunity may never arise.

    last monday for example I tried to put a musodori on and it failed so I threw a short stomp kick into the back of the knee before my uke could try to counter, as he fell his arm came up for balance, I grabbed the wrist (it was a little too high to be honest) then put my hand against the back of his shoulder and push/pulled it into an armbar. I didnt spend ten minutes trying to make the musodori work...that not what the "alive" part of the training is for...thats what the kata is for.


    If you stick to the high percentage techs, is training bujinkan alive almost excatly like muay thai and judo?
    Well not really. My kicks look nothing like muay thai kicks, and I spend alot of time flanking as appose to clinch grab and throw when training. That's actually what I like the most about this style when sparring, I am always finding myself on the outside of my opponent, clear of kicks and punches with the worst they can give me is an elbow with only back-drawn force. The more I spar the better I get at it. Its alot of fun and some of my friends now incorporate it into their training.
    I think too many bujinkaners get caught up thinking that every altercation is gonna be a wristlock event and thats just bullshit. I base it down to flanking, knee kicks, hook sweeps and shinden fudo ryu style punching (the barrell method ones that incorporate knuckle edged strikes and uppercuts)
    Is that clear?

    I mean, judo is bascily alive Japanese jujitsu.
    Yeah okay....and?
    Whats the point of that statement? I may have not understood.

    Virus, don't get me wrong bro, but I don't understand why you get so pissed off about the bujinkan anyway...6 years is a long time and you seem to have had many a time where you questioned what you were learning. If you didn't like it, why didnt you just leave earlier? Do you really need to spend all day just shitcanning anything bujinkan you can get your hands on? I didn't like karate . It wasn't for me in the end, but it didnt mean I was going to sit going through the internet looking for **** to paste here.
    Though some stuff you have put up has been an absolute pisser and cringer!
    You have every right to be pissed. I understand that. All I'm saying is let it go. Say **** it and move on. Hopefully you have found the training you enjoy now.
    Cheers
    Nick
  5. Rubber Tanto is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 11:21pm


     Style: Bujutsu / Muay Thai / MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MONGO
    In the BJK.
    Standing locks on an opponent is pretty fucking hard to do so those wrist twists and things like that go to **** until in close or on the ground. The throws usually need to be taught in a dynamic method so they can be pulled off with resistance but they usually need some modification.

    There are times where the takedowns end up transforming into something that has a wrestling methodology, BJK says that it is shifting to the dead side of the opponent but it is usually just a peekout done poorly. Other than that, standing punches and kicks that would end getting you killed in a MT or Kickboxing comp.

    All of those movements can be drilled until they are good but there is no difference from the basics than what could be learned in other martial arts. There really is nothing unique once the weapons are lost from the syllabus............. There is just a lot of elements but none are perfected.

    Worst case scenerio is the BJK turns into WT with trapping like bullshit and horribly unrealistic punching.
    Some of that I agree with some of that I don't...but then again, if you were to train in a judo classes that worked on compliant ukes only you'd think the techniques sucked arse too whne you went across to an alive style.

    The problem in the buj is that you don't see hwo **** works until you practice it with resistance. And get good at it with resistance. Doing it three times after class with a mate then thinking you understand it aint gonna do you any favours. But like I said, in the end it's what works for you. I'm not here to preach that ****. I just answered Viru's questions.

    Cheers
    Nick
  6. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 11:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't worry I'm over the shitcanning now.

    I guess I didn't leave earlier becuase I used to think it was the bomb. Then as time went on I started thinking less and less of it's effectivness, the state of the organisation ect. It just reached a point where I didn't think it was worth training anymore and that time would be more constructively spent elsewhere.
  7. Rubber Tanto is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/07/2006 11:29pm


     Style: Bujutsu / Muay Thai / MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Like I said...I can understand that. I left one bujinkan school and went to another because of the **** the first instructor would dribble. I have a big mouth, my sensei will tell you that. I'm the guy in class that's always asking how the technique would have to adapt if x happened or Y happened. So when that other sensei was answering with "that wouldn't happen" every fucking time...I got pissed off and left.

    Thats why I always say. Don't look for a system...look for a school.
  8. Mjelva is offline
    Mjelva's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 3:09am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know if this has been posted before or not, and unfortunately I don't have time to check.

    http://www.bujinkansf.org/seago.mpg

    It seems Dale Seago sees this as some sort of validation. Personally I just see a ninjer with a black belt completely incapable of any sort of proper offense. For shame!

    http://www.martialartsplanet.com/for...ad.php?t=28672
  9. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 5:03am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah that was posted before and unfortunatly, it's pretty much as alive as it gets for most people.
  10. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

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    May 2004
    Posts
    10,471

    Posted On:
    6/08/2006 5:37am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Listen to all the litte ninja/hyena hybrids. hee hee hee we can't fight hee hee hee look at one of our own getting pwnd hee hee hee sensei's nuts are SO weighty hee hee hee.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
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