Dale Tales. Laying the smackdown on t3h sp4r.

**Rubber Tanto** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 7:02pm

I think the others are talking about Bujinkan schools in General

**PrinceOfPain** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 7:08pm

Originally Posted by Rubber Tanto

I think the others are talking about Bujinkan schools in General

Yeah but I asked about schools that train resistance...not schools in general

**MONGO** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 7:10pm

Dakota, I think grip fighting would translate well too but that is really unprovable and beyond the expected scope of Judo.

Prince of Pain, I have used BJK teachings in serious fights before but that was also because I sparred on a regular basis (weekly) learned some groundfighting from wrestlers and an occasional Judoka.......... If these elements are introduced into training and approached with an interest in drilling the basics and consistantly pressure testing them, then it is possible that you can have reliable skills.

A lot of the guys that say they are BJK and post on MAP and many other places claim that their training has alive elements or they do sparring (randori) are really not telling the truth. From what I saw with training with lots of people at Taikais, in Japan and other dojos showed me that most of them don't have a clue what they are training for so they have no way to approach training with a sense of reality.

The current trend with talk of Kukan and ellusive concepts are really not to be taught to anyone under the 'shihan' level. It has quickly change the focus and dilluted what little realistic training in most dojos. Dale and Ben have a large presense on the internet and they both do a good job of leading people into the fantasyland bullshit (hense my vehement dislike of what they do).

Shinbushi is trying to do a good thing by structuring Aliveness into the syllabus. I admire him for his dedication and optimism but I don't share in it. I think that the majority of the BJK is a pile of **** and it is too far gone and not worth saving.

If you find a school that has resistance, and you want to wade into the bullshit organization, go for it. Just don't nutride, there is far too much material that detracts from legitimacy than supports it.

**Rubber Tanto** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 7:25pm

Originally Posted by MONGO

If you find a school that has resistance, and you want to wade into the bullshit organization, go for it. Just don't nutride, there is far too much material that detracts from legitimacy than supports it.

That's the best advice. PoP
I just support Craig and our dojo. In the end, that's who I'm training with. You've seen that no one there calls themselves ninjas or says they study ninjutsu. No one sits talking dreamy eyed of Hatsumi etc...we just train, and learn and do our best.
Give advice when you can, and give your opinion when you want, based on your experience in other Martial Arts, and in the bujinkan knowledge you will gain as time goes by. But don't stress about what people say about the bujinkan as a whole. Some of it might be just words set to barb you, but alot of it is true too. I've seen clips of guys with godans that look like our brownbelts so hey, I stopped defending ages ago. You know your training. You alone can decide if it works or not.

Nick

**VikingPower** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 7:58pm

Schools can change too. Mine started off really well and was going the route of where we could spar each other if we wanted to during some of our classes, working on different scenarios, and actually applying once we knew. Once promotions came though and certain individuals left, the place suddenly did a 180 and you have people throwing rubber shuriken at each other in a dark room and brown belts who can't perform an omote gyakku properly.

**Anna Kovacs** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:01pm

Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu

the place suddenly did a 180 and you have people throwing rubber shuriken at each other in a dark room

lol, are you serious?

**Hannibal** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:03pm

Mongo.

Have you heard of an Australian who teaches Bujinkan over there in Japan? His name is Tim Bathurst, he is a Shihan.

**MONGO** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:05pm

I have heard of Tim but I have only seen him train once. I don't know how he teaches but he has a good reputation. I can neither endorse or condemn him.

**Virus** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 9:40pm

To those that train bujinkan with alivness;

I never trained bujinkan alive so maybe you can help me out here. If you decided to do alive wristlock drills wouldn't you be there for ages trying to score this low percentage technique? If you stick to the high percentage techs is training bujinkan alive almost excatly like muay thai and judo? I mean, judo is bascily alive Japanese jujitsu.

**Lane** · Posted On: 6/07/2006 10:16pm

Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity

lol, are you serious?

Yes. I've done it too.

There were some times at my old dojo that we did some full-contact drills and even some randori. But nothing like what I have experienced in either judo or muay thai.