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  1. Amir is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 10:49am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found the article most interesting, since I have read a lot about the UFC yet have only seen little of it. Could you perhaps elaborate on the following subjects, I apologize but since English isn’t my native language I didn’t understand those:

    * Fish hooking.
    what does it mean ?

    * Small joint manipulation.
    Does it refer only to fingers or are other joints also included (is a lock on the wrist like many Aikido and JJJ techniques legal ? for example)

    * Stomping a grounded opponent.
    Does this mean going down on the opponent (with your knee for example) once he is thrown is forbidden?

    * Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
    What does spiking mean ?

    * Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
    This rule could mean anything, starting at if you caused damage to your opponent you are at fault and ending with anything is considered “sportsmanlike conduct”. What does it really mean?

    I have also read somewhere the accessories vary according to technique (one must kick barefooted and box only with gloves etc.) is it true ?


    I would like to say, from my first reading of these rules. Some interpretation of all these rules could make only specially designed M.A. much better for this type of a fight (such as BJJ). Which doesn’t degrade the skill one should have to win.

    Thank you for elaborating

    Amir
  2. SDriver is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 11:03am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fish hooking = jamming your fingers in someone's mouth and pulling on the soft tissue of their face. Like a fish hook.

    Biting is an easy defense against fish hooking. Since you can't bite, you can't fish hook.
  3. SDriver is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 11:04am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    BTW, "going down on your opponent" probably means something different in the US than it does in Israel. I'm hoping.
  4. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 12:30pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found the article most interesting, since I have read a lot about the UFC yet have only seen little of it. Could you perhaps elaborate on the following subjects, I apologize but since English isn’t my native language I didn’t understand those:

    * Fish hooking.
    what does it mean ?
    SDriver covered this one.

    * Small joint manipulation.
    Does it refer only to fingers or are other joints also included (is a lock on the wrist like many Aikido and JJJ techniques legal ? for example)
    Fingers and or toes (although I've never heard of a toe lock), such as traditional JJ or Hapkido moves that'd break fingers.

    I believe Aikido/Hapkido-like wrist locks and such are perfectly legal, but you only tend to see anything similar to one when someone's trying to go for/defend against an armbar. Personally, I'd love to see some TMA techniques work.

    * Stomping a grounded opponent.
    Does this mean going down on the opponent (with your knee for example) once he is thrown is forbidden?
    Kneeing an opponent who is on his back, or has 4 points of contact with the ground, is generally the rule. In Pride, stomping is allowed, and usually a prefered tactic of Team Chutebox.

    * Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
    What does spiking mean ?
    Picking someone up and dropping them on their head/neck.

    * Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent.
    This rule could mean anything, starting at if you caused damage to your opponent you are at fault and ending with anything is considered “sportsmanlike conduct”. What does it really mean?
    I'm pretty sure this is the "testicles" rule. No kicking/punching/etc to the groin, and no moving the cup out of the way to strike at it. That's actually happened, although I can't remember what match it was. Anyone know?

    I have also read somewhere the accessories vary according to technique (one must kick barefooted and box only with gloves etc.) is it true ?
    The gloves are to protect the fighter's hands, not the opponent's face. As far as kicking goes, I've seen several people kick wearing wrestling shoes (it's pretty hard to do, I know personally because you don't get much of a pivot), but the intent is to prevent a shoe from being used as a weapon, or a means by which a cut can be better achieved.

    I would like to say, from my first reading of these rules. Some interpretation of all these rules could make only specially designed M.A. much better for this type of a fight (such as BJJ). Which doesn’t degrade the skill one should have to win.

    Thank you for elaborating

    Amir
    UFC's rules, suck, in my opinion. I prefer Pride's much better, and IVC rules even better than that.

    You have to remember UFC has revamped itself to cater to ignorant American fans in order to grow its fan base, and to ignorant American sports commissions, in order to get sanctioned.

    Right now, the ideal fighter in the UFC is a striker with good takedown defense. A pure BJJ stylist doesn't do very well, when he has to contend with short rounds that force him to stand up and try to take the opponent down all over again.

    The UFC actually tries to encourage striking to keep the fans happy, by forcing standups for slow activity, which nullifies the tactic of tiring the opponent out from the BJJ guard, and stopping fights quickly when excessive strikes are successful and the opponent goes to the ground. (Without a KO, mind you).
  5. Amir is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 12:34pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no idea what is the expression you refer to with "going down on your opponent". Sorry, even though I am reading lots of books in English, I don't know the real "spoken" language.

    I meant that once you throw your opponent using some type of lock, you can simply knee him using your weight while you are moving to a ground lock.
    Hope I am clearer this time.

    Amir
  6. Amir is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 12:37pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Phrost

    could you in this case write the Pride rules ?
  7. SDriver is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 12:47pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Amir,

    "Going down on someone" is an American (maybe English too?) idiom for providing oral sex.

    BTW, I have been nikkyo'd twice while rolling. Very embarrassing. :(
  8. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 1:18pm

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     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Going down on someone:

    1. Placing your head inbetween a man or womans legs and either,

    A. Placing a man's pee pee in your mouth and stimulating it orally.

    Or

    B. Pleasuring a woman with your tounge.

    For clarification on this see: HUNTER


    "Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  9. PeedeeShaolin is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 1:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The UFC USED to allow those things anyway(NOT oral sex you sick fuks...).

    The IVC still allows them. The only thing their really usefull for is for strikers to claim THATS why they didnt win.

    "Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who "Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing." -Ed Parker
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  10. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/22/2002 10:21pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Revised on Feb. 22, 2002

    Article 1
    The fighters shall wear open finger gloves, which will be provided by DSE.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 2
    Upon the fighter's choice, Gi, kneepads, elbow-pads, shin guards, taping and ankle supporter may be worn, but should be checked by the referee before the fights. Mouthpiece and foul up are mandatory for fighters. Even though taping and bandage on the fist are prohibited, taping on the fingers is permitted upon the referee's check.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 3
    No application of oil, ointment, spray, Vaseline, massaging cream, hair cream, or any other substances are permitted to be applied to any part of the fighter's body before and during the fights. When application of these substances is discovered, the fighter may be disqualified.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 4
    When a fighter wears shoes, referee and judges have to determine if the shoes impose any danger to his opponent if the fighter kicks his opponent with the shoes on. He is allowed to kick his opponent with his shoes on only when referee and judges' approval are given to the fighter.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 5
    The ring will be a 7m by 7m-square shape, which DSE has approved.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 6
    Fights are 3 rounds formats. The first round is ten (10) minutes, the second round is five (5) minutes and the third round is five (5) minutes. There are no extra rounds. The interval between each round shall be two (2) minutes.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 7
    The winner shall be determined by one of the following:

    Ippon
    When the fighter gives up, submission and/or forfeiture are expressed either verbally or by tapping more than 3 times on the mat or the opponent's body.

    TKO (Technical Knockout)

    Referee Stoppage
    When a fighter is remarkably superior to the other and the referee judges the inferior is in danger if the fight continues.

    Doctor Stoppage
    When a fighter is injured by the opponent's legal attack and if a ringside doctor determines that the injured fighter is incapable of continuing the fight, the injured fighter loses the fight. However, if the injury is caused by the illegal action of the opponent, the opponent loses the fight. For the ringside doctor's examination, a sub-referee will take the fighter's primary corner man to the neutral corner to inform him/her of the doctor's diagnosis and instruction. When the doctor determines the doctor stop is appropriate and required, the sub-referee explains the diagnosis and fighter's condition to the primary corner man.

    Renunciation
    The fighter's corner men may stop the fight by "throwing in the towel." In case the referee fails to see it, the judges may stop the fight.

    Judges Decision
    The three judges shall judge the winner of the fight based on the following criteria:

    Effort to finish the fight by KO or submission
    Damaging your opponent
    Standing combinations and ground control
    Take down and defense
    Aggressiveness
    Weight differences of 10 (ten) kg or more
    The above criteria are in descending priority. The criteria will be a determining factor to declare the winner of the fight. The fight will be scored in its entirety not round-by-round. After the third round, each judge must decide the winner of the fight (must system/no draw system).

    Disqualification
    The referee shall give a caution to a fighter when the fighter commits the illegal action or if he disobeys the referee's instruction. Third caution during the fight shall disqualify the fighter.

    No contest
    When illegal action disqualifies both fighters, or the judges and/or DSE decide to end the fight because of an accident, or an accident happened in the first (1) round causes either or both fighters to be unable to continue to the next round, the fight shall be ruled a "No Contest." However, in the case that the accident happens during or after the second (2) round, decision shall be made according to their performance during the first (1) round and the following round(s) before the accident occurred.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 8
    The following actions are deemed to be illegal. A fighter who commits these illegal actions hall be given a caution by the referee and such illegal action shall be a negative factor for decision. Third caution during the fight shall disqualify the fighter. The fighter shall be fined 10% of the fighting fee per caution payable to DSE.

    Biting
    Eye thumbing and eye gouging
    Head butting
    Attacking the groin
    Pulling Hair
    Pushing the windpipe with the thumb or finger (s) or squeezing the windpipe
    Attacking the back of the head, the spine and/or the medulla (The back of the head is the centerline of the head and the area around the ears are not considered to be the back of the head.)
    Using the elbows to attack the head or the face
    Grabbing the ropes and refuse to release the ropes and/or hanging the limbs of the body (hand(s), arm(s), leg(s) or feet) over the rope intentionally. A fighter who places his upper arm over the rope shall be given a caution immediately.
    Escaping to the outside of the ring
    Throwing the opponent outside the ring
    Stalling or failure to initiate any offensive or defensive attack. Making no attempt to finish or damage the opponent.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 9
    The following rules are applied to weight for title matches (see "Attachment" at end). The weighing should be monitored by the rule director and should be completed by the day before the matches. Matches are qualified to be title matches only when fighters pass weighing criteria and fighters are proven to be in good condition fight both physically and mentally.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 10
    Weight classes are as follows:

    Middleweight Class: Weight less than 93kg
    Heavyweight Class: Weight more than or equal to 93kg
    If both fighters are in the Middle Weight Class: If there is a weight difference of 10 kg or more between the two Middle Weight Class fighters, the lighter fighter is given a choice to decide whether to allow knee or kick to the face when the fighter is in the "four points" position.

    If the lighter fighter approves of such attacks, both fighters are allowed to do so. However, if the lighter fighter doesn't give approval, neither fighter is allowed to do the above-mentioned attack.

    If both fighters are in the Heavy Weight Class: The above rule is applied if there is a weight difference of 15kg or more between two heavyweight fighters.

    If a fight is between middle and heavyweight class fighters: The middle class rule is applied. Therefore, if there is weight difference of 10 kg or more between middle and heavy class fighters, the middle class fighter is given a choice to decide whether to allow knees or kicks to the face when a fighter is in the "four points" position.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 11
    In the case that a fighter has been damaged immensely by the opponent's illegal action, the referee and the doctor shall decide if the fight can resume after the damaged fighter recovers enough to fight. However, if the referee and doctor judge the fighter as not capable of continuing the fight, the opponent who committed the illegal action shall be disqualified according to Article 7-2.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 12
    In the case that the fighters are about to fall out of the ring, the referee shall call "Stop. Don't Move." Both fighters have to stop any movement and both fighters are directed to the center of the ring and resume the fight in the same position.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 13
    Fighters must immediately go back to the ring in the case of falling outside of the ring and resume the fight from the standing position in the center of the ring.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 14
    The referee may call a break under the following conditions:

    When both of the fighters are in the standing position and the fight is deadlocked without any effective action.
    When one fighter lies on the ground with his face up to the ceiling and the other takes a standing position and there is no action going on and the fight is deadlocked.
    When illegal action in Article 8 is committed.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 15
    The fighters and the corner men shall abide by any judgment or instructions made by the referee. If fighters and corner men have any objection to the judgment of the referee, the objection has to be made in writing to DSE within 2 weeks after the fight. Any third party, other than the fighters and the corner men, is not allowed to intervene in any manner in the referee and judge's decision. When this article is violated, 10% of the fighting fee has to be paid to DSE as a penalty.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 16
    Fighters may have up to 3 corner men. These corner men are not allowed to leave their own corner during the fight. Corner men are not allowed to have any physical contact with the fighters under any circumstances during the fight. If any of the corner men violates the terms of this section, the fighter has to pay 10% of the fighting fee to DSE as a penalty.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Article 17
    Fighters shall be asked to take a doctor check before the fight at the venue.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Weigh-in
    Weigh-ins will be conducted by the time appointed by the sponsor (as a basic rule, weigh-ins must be within 24 hours of the fight) at the appointed place. The weigh-in must be conducted under the supervision of the Rule Director. The attendance of the second is optional, however each fighter must be present for his opponent's weigh-in. If the fighter misses the weigh-in without a valid reason, he will be disqualified. If the fighter has a valid reason, a new place and time will for the weigh-in will be decided and the fighter must be present at the new time and location for weigh-in.

    If the fighter fails the weigh-in, he must be re-weighed within 4 hours. Within the 4 hours, the fighter may be re-weighed as many times as he wants. However, if the fighter has not passed the weigh-in within the 4 hours, the weigh-ins end at 10 a.m. on the day of the fight. If the fighter doesn't pass the weigh-in at that point, the fight will not be recognized as a title match. In the case that the fighter is the champion, he will be stripped of his title. However, if the opponent or his second gives approval, the title fight can be held with the condition that if the fight goes to the decision, the fighter who failed weigh-in will automatically have points deducted from the judges score.

    Weigh-In Penalties

    Fighters who do not pass their contracted weight examination will return 10% of the fight money to the promoter as a penalty.
    After weigh-ins are completed, any fighter who is involved in any accident that prevents him from entering the competition, he must pay double his fight money to the promoter as a penalty
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