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  1. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    angola, ny
    Posts
    2,047

    Posted On:
    5/23/2003 1:05am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Bjjers in nhb often stall. Whether this is good strategy is irrelevant, but it slows things down. A wrestler does not inder any circumstances stall. Its against the rules. Wrestlers are taught to shoot right off the whistle."

    its is probably strategic, but yes tendency/tactic would make it slow(er).

    often the hesitation is a conservative element, to avoid making a mistake.

    i have observed amatuer wrestling matches on television where a peculiar strategy is used. certain positions are dangerous to the joints. wrestlers who are losing or at a disadvantage will voluntarily put themselves in a bad position, say with a twisted leg and then the ref restarts them.

    the relevance lies in the fact that this provides a safety net in case you get into bad position. you can just worsen it and get a reset. so there is really nothing to lose. as well, most bjj/jjj style submissions are completely illegal in wrestling.

    the mindset and rules are different for each.

    wrestling is aggresive and nonstop.
    bbj is conservative and timed.

    still have a hard time saying one is faster than the other. the pace seems to be determined more by the participants than anything else.



    peace.

    " a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"
      #31
  2. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    angola, ny
    Posts
    2,047

    Posted On:
    5/23/2003 1:22am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Unless the striker knocks him out in one hit"

    pretty much a comparison of move for move time frame. grappling usually requires SLIGHTLY more time for setup.

    the duration of the match is decided by a lot of factors, which are entirely dependant on the strategy and tactics used by the fighters. some arguement could be made that certain TECHNIQUES are bit slower than others. like a jab is faster than a hip throw. but i dont think it is proper to say that any given STYLE is slower than any other.

    it is really the FIGHTER who is fast or slow, not the system. but a good opponent can definately 'slow' you down and make you work for it.

    peace.

    " a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"
      #32
  3. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    angola, ny
    Posts
    2,047

    Posted On:
    5/23/2003 2:06am


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i think these things are more important in terms of controlling the duration of a fight.

    1)defensive counter fighter-this strategy waits for the opponent's attack in order to neutralize it, and counter to whatever he leaves open with his attack.
    2)equivalent skill- the fighters counter each other's manoevers repeatly, this goes on until somebody fucks up.
    3)trying to get a particular 'move', like a favorite finisher. tends to make you miss all kinds of opportunities because you are set on your 'signature' tech.
    4)fear- being scared of your opponent or intimidated in any fashion will slow you down. i think this applies more to a competition match. in a real fight, fear can make you move much faster than you normally would. you wont necessarily win because you are scared, but you will be faster(i think that is a different issue). but in a competitive match, fear will delay your offense, as you look for or try to create openings.

    just a few ideas.

    peace.

    " a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"
      #33
  4. kryptiq is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    75

    Posted On:
    5/23/2003 10:39am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    kuntao (just a quick reply)...

    me: "Apparently the throws are quick and dirty - effective but in some of the moves, the opponent has his/her limbs tied up so they can't break-fall properly."

    you: "that's because they are not 'sport' technique. those are 'real' throws. of what use is a throw that is easily nullified by a simple breakfall? "

    I agree but real throws can be trained with breakfalls too - lots of judo throws involve the nage holding onto uke's arm to help them land properly. In a real fight, nage could just let uke fall on his/her head or back.
      #34
  5. SamHarber is offline

    Taking a break

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Bolton, Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    2,611

    Posted On:
    5/23/2003 11:56am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interestingly, a lot of aikido throws are made more difficult to safely land from when you keep hold of Ukes arm.
    Its important to know when to keep hold and when to let go.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989
      #35
  6. IndoChinese is offline

    AKAKTK

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    angola, ny
    Posts
    2,047

    Posted On:
    5/23/2003 12:18pm


     Style: Liu Seong Gung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "I agree but real throws can be trained with breakfalls too - lots of judo throws involve the nage holding onto uke's arm to help them land properly. In a real fight, nage could just let uke fall on his/her head or back."

    sure, i was just trying to make the distinticion between certain 'categories' or 'methods' of throwing.

    judo is considered 'safe throwing'. it was modified for safety, and rightly so.

    with the addition of certain factors, throws can become much more devatstating. but these throws are difficult to train. judo and similar arts are great for basic practice throw.


    sport/civil throws usually allow some type of ukemi. they dont 'have' to, but they do for training purposes. take osotogari for example, adding a waist twist enables you to drop the opponent on your knee as he falls.(spine or neck) judoka/jujutsuka often train to drop opponents directly in front of their shin. this is for the knee drop interruption. how often they say this,or reveal this tactic, i dont know.


    peace.

    " a cow doesnt whinny, and a horse has no udder, back is to the sides, and sideways is straight ahead"
      #36
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