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  1. Arbiter is offline
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    punch-drunk

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:25pm

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     Style: SanDa / MMA / Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaTrocity
    Noticed that bits and peices of tara's fight was up there as well, she looked good!
    different event, different fighter though.
  2. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:26pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Proper background knowledge, cultural appreciation, historical recognition. All of the things that come along with Martial Arts of any culture particularly.
    Martial=conflict or fighting. Arts=skill. That has nothing to do with history or cultural appreciation. Its only about fighting.

    Any man can be a brute and slug away at an opponent.
    Not just any man can be a great fighter, no. In fact, truly great fighters are extremely rare. What I am questioning is whether or not traditions and history have anything to do with one's fighting ability.

    The best fighters/warriors out there are those who are well educated in what they do and in how they do it. Including where things come from.
    If "in what they do and in how they do it" means simply things like techniques, strategies, training methods, etc., then I agree with you. If you start adding in things like traditions, culture, history, etc., then I would argue that they are totally irrelevant as to how good of a fighter someone becomes. How exactly does knowing about "cultural appreciation" and "historical recognition" make one a better fighter?
  3. Killing Moon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:26pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake??
    Since you seem sincere in not wanting a **** storm listen one more time. Your above statement may get this thread moved out of newbietown. Realize the **** storm you expected may start now.

    Although I agree with what you are getting at, the delivery is circumspect. I can get the same things you mentioned in a Cultural History class on China. I don't have to be a Martial Artist to learn Martial History. All the things you've discussed are additions to the MA.
    You also don't have to once touch an ECU in order to understand engine performance dynamics either. But that's neither here nor there, really.

    If you're going into auto engineering, understanding the history of how things've been done and have worked helps. And in some manners, may become practical in the future.
  4. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:32pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    You also don't have to once touch an ECU in order to understand engine performance dynamics either. But that's neither here nor there, really.

    If you're going into auto engineering, understanding the history of how things've been done and have worked helps. And in some manners, may become practical in the future.
    Understanding the history of how things have been done in the past and what has and hasn't worked in this past does help.

    But things like learning obscure details about the life of Henry Ford, dressing just like him, learning German just because that's what Porsche spoke, etc., does not matter at all.
  5. Killing Moon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:33pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Martial=conflict or fighting. Arts=skill. That has nothing to do with history or cultural appreciation. Its only about fighting.
    What I mean, in my respect is say-the historical recognition and cultural appreciation of how these methods were originated. Then in how they were used to their maximum capability for their time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Not just any man can be a great fighter, no. In fact, truly great fighters are extremely rare. What I am questioning is whether or not traditions and history have anything to do with one's fighting ability.
    I didn't say "great fighter" within the exerpt that you quoted me on, did I? And traditions and history can have an impact on the development of one self. Such as training methods

    Only an ignoramus would think that history doesn't play a part into how things change and progress for the future. Present company excluded (hopefully).

    You have to know where you come from in order to know where you're going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    If "in what they do and in how they do it" means simply things like techniques, strategies, training methods, etc., then I agree with you. If you start adding in things like traditions, culture, history, etc., then I would argue that they are totally irrelevant as to how good of a fighter someone becomes. How exactly does knowing about "cultural appreciation" and "historical recognition" make one a better fighter?
    Learning from the mistakes and accomplishments of the past in order to improve the future. Simply put.
  6. Killing Moon is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:34pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freakshow
    Understanding the history of how things have been done in the past and what has and hasn't worked in this past does help.

    But things like learning obscure details about the life of Henry Ford, dressing just like him, learning German just because that's what Porsche spoke, etc., does not matter at all.
    Well learning German among German engineers would be useful...don't you think? But as for the other things you've mentioned, those are obviously a bit ridiculous, to say the least.
  7. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:37pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Well learning German among German engineers would be useful...don't you think? But as for the other things you've mentioned, those are obviously a bit ridiculous, to say the least.
    I said "just because Porsche spoke it". The implication there being that the person doing so has no other reason to learn it.

    But back on track...

    Those "ridiculous" things are just what you seemed to be advocating when talking about "historical" and "cultural" things. I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me. But martial artists do this sort of thing all the time: obsess over lineage (the meaningless details of Ford's life), wear traditional clothing (dress like Ford did), put effort into learning aspects of a culture that is not the one they are living in (learning German JUST because Porsche spoke it). None of which have anything to do with fighting.
  8. Arbiter is offline
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    punch-drunk

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:40pm

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     Style: SanDa / MMA / Kung-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Proper background knowledge, cultural appreciation, historical recognition. All of the things that come along with Martial Arts of any culture particularly.

    Any man can be a brute and slug away at an opponent. The best fighters/warriors out there are those who are well educated in what they do and in how they do it. Including where things come from.

    But it doesn't mean that you have to be bound by any of this though. That's where the crucial mistakes come in.
    the m.o. here @ bs is to annalize m.a. based on concrete facts and tangible results, otherwise, as you can see time & time again, things degenerate into mythology and people flake out. i think you understand this concept based on your last paragraph though. just remember that you will not get far here playing the cultural or non-physical personal development cards. not that those things can't happen threw training, but that they are not germaine to martial arts.
  9. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:42pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Killing Moon
    Learning from the mistakes and accomplishments of the past in order to improve the future. Simply put.
    That can be very easily done (and done much better, I think) without looking at "cultural" things, can't it? How does knowing about a culture improve a fighter today?

    As for history...you have to keep in mind that we may not have an accurate accounting of what the techniques and fighting practices were really like in that history. I think it is much more beneficial to test things now, than to worry about what was happening hundreds of years ago.
  10. Freakshow is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/01/2006 2:43pm


     Style: Box, Kickbox, No-gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Arbiter
    ...but that they are not germaine to martial arts.
    THE GODDAMMNED GERMANS HAVE GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!

    Sorry...little "Smokey and the Bandit" quote there...
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