Cung Le(kung fu) in UFC?

**Beaton Yu** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 12:54pm

Originally Posted by MistaKickz

That's my bad I misread. But anyways.. San Shou isn't Kung Fu. It's basically Muay Thai w/ throws. People don't even call it Kung Fu. They say, San Shou.

You are incorrect, but thanks for your input.

**PirateJon** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:00pm

So kung-fu and San Shou are exactly the same and interchangeable?

**Beaton Yu** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:01pm

Originally Posted by PirateJon

So kung-fu and San Shou are exactly the same and interchangeable?

San Shou is derived from Kung Fu.

Kung Fu is the foundation upon which it is built.

**isol8d** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:08pm

San Shou: History & Development
by, Brent Hamby

San Shou is the official full contact fighting sport of modern Wushu which is rapidly growing in popularity both in the US and abroad. As an integral part of most Wushu competitions, San Shou has been an important event at the World Wushu Championships since its inception in 1991. Presently San Shou competitions are held in over 75 countries world wide. Recently San Shou has also become a professional sport in America.

The word "San Shou" also spelled "Sanda" translates as "unbound hand" and refers to free fighting where the rules are designed to most accurately simulate actual combat. San Shou matches are fought on a raised platform called the "Lei Tai". Historically, the Lei Tai dates back centuries in China where challenge matches were fought both bare handed and also with weapons with no rules—often resulting in death or serious injury. At the National Chinese tournament in Nanking in 1928, the fights on the Lei Tai were so brutal that the final 12 contestants were not permitted to fight for fear of killing off some of the great masters of the time. So changes were needed.
Modern San Shou developed into a sport about the same time as modern Wushu during the 1960’s by the Chinese Government. In order to define a standard kung fu fighting style, the great masters from all over China were given the task of organizing the huge heritage of Chinese martial arts in to a system of rules in which different styles could complete. Protective equipment was also added to further reduce the risk of serious injury.
The rules of San Shou allow for a wide array of full contact punching, kicking, takedowns and throws derived from the traditional application of Chinese martial arts. Finishing hold (chokes, arm locks etc.) have been excluded from the rules which forces the fight to continue at a fast pace. San Shou addresses the three ranges of fighting—kicking, punching and grappling which adds great realism to the sport. A fighter can win by a knockout or by points, points are also awarded for the techniques according to effectiveness. In a tournament, you fight for 2 rounds of 2 minutes each, plus a third round in case the first 2 score even. Forcing the opponent off of the platform is also a major technique of San Shou. It is a mistake to think of San Shou as just Kick Boxing because the strategies of San Shou are very different.

There is a now a saying is China: San Shou shi Wushu de Jinghua—
San Shou is the quintessence of Wushu.

**Kidnemo** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:09pm

lol

San Shou is what kung fu would be if the practioners actually wanted to learn what "real" fighting is about, actually wanted to scrap a little bit, and were a heckuva lot less concerned with forms, sashes, stealing peachs, and having fat bellies.

Who wants to get punched and kicked when learning how to fight and compete anyway, when it's so much easier to get first place in the forms competion, get your black sash and then walk around telling people how legit you are.

I did kung fu and san shou for a year btw.

Sadly I was more concerned on learning how to fight, so instead of spending 8 hours of training learning stuff that I did not find important (forms, etc) for my two hours of full contact san shou.

Kickboxing + weight training > kung forms and some san shou

(for my money and time atleast)

**Beaton Yu** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:13pm

You guys crack me up. You are so desperate to hate on traditional martial arts that you can't even give credit where it's due.

**Kidnemo** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:16pm

I'm not desperate to hate on anything, let alone traditional martial arts.

As long as people are realistic about their training and don't try to potray false claims I'm good to go.

Sadly, this style of thinking is the minority among the TMA'ists that I have personally spoke or trained with.

**PirateJon** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:22pm

Originally Posted by Beaton Yu

You guys crack me up. You are so desperate to hate on traditional martial arts that you can't even give credit where it's due.

Cheese is old milk. Old milk is not cheese.

**new2bjj** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:54pm

Beaton,

No disrepect, I studied with Phillip Wong and Jiang Ho Mae for three years doing wu shu. I thought that, since I was doing kicks and punchs, wu shu style, including a little bag work, that it would transfer over to my free fighting. I had done TKD and some full contact, years before. It did not work out that way. You have to train your techniques the way you use them. Jason Yee, a better martial artist in the traditional sense than many of us could hope to be- winning in forms and full contact, until he was crushed and carried on cable by Cung Le, has said " do forms or do fighting- don't try to do both". After that, I went to Fairtex- why **** around.
Cung is pretty phenomal athlete, but he loves fighting people that have little or no experience in his sport. He got school in grappling at the Sabaki Challenbge, and he has been knocked out in international competition. He is annoounced as the best in the world , but only one a bronze in amateur, international competition. His back ground is wrestling and TKD, with a tiny bit of Vietnamses Kung Fu. If he really wanted a match, he could invite the guys from China over, but he never has- i'm sure they would love the payday. He will continue to fight soup cans for as long as he can, and people are willing to watch.

**HearWa** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:59pm

Originally Posted by Beaton Yu

More fun with pictures:

First, Sean doing something that I'm sure you think is total bullshit.

Second, Sean beating someone's ass in a full contact fight.

As you can see, Kung Fu and full contact fighting are not mutually exclusive.

It's funny how the only people who claim that San Shou isn't King Fu are people who neither train in Kung Fu or specifically San Shou. They are also usually MT fighters. Hmmm.....

I'm a kung fu guy, and have been one for the past six years. San Shou is NOT Kung Fu, get that out of your thick skull. When the Chinese got their asses handed to them by the Thai's they became upset and (note the following) TRAINED SPECIFICALLY IN THAI BOXING.

And from what I hear just about every throw you see can be found in Judo. Sure, if you swing your arms just the right way in any of the 3 billion forms that have been invented to appease those who believe that forms = fighting it might ALMOST look like one of the Judo throws, but give me a break. We all know where it came from.

http://crane.50megs.com

Seriously though, I know it sucks that CMA sucks. It's all really cool and all, and maybe you're good friends with your instructor or something and don't want to believe otherwise. But step into a kickboxing gym (which from my experience most kung fu-ers try to immitate, including me when I trained in it) and you'll thank us all later.