More Bujinkan Bull.

**Mr. Jones** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 6:52pm

I like ninjas.

**Fantasy Warrior** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 7:04pm

they're growing on me.

**Mr. Jones** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 7:17pm

Originally Posted by MONGO

The fact of the matter, ichimonji is a retarded stance to do anything in other than transition or finish. As a starting or defensive position, it can provide little to no real help. The majority of the **** involved has limited application to armoured fighting (which makes training it even dumber because so little training is in Yaroi).

Ichimonji/lunge punch and all that **** should be utilized as a kata to show morons how to add body weight to their strikes, that is it. Making it lower and forcing people to memorize ancient kamae is not in anyone's interest unless pretending to be a ninja/feudal japanese warrior is the goal. If that is the goal, then why get upset when called a LARPer?

Bladed stances actually limit the options for engaging, a more squared stance with the feet offset slightly offer better balance and options for moving ,cause its natural and in good alignment with the design of the body (sports and modern methods prove these points). Ninjas don't need science though..................They have the ancient wisdom of a crazy old man and his possible fake scrolls to comfort them in their inevitable defeat from a 'sport fighter'.

MONGO is so wise that if he had Jigoro Kano as his avatar people would believe it was him.

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 7:24pm

I would still award you "t3h win!!!11" for the scrumptious ninjette.

--J.D.

**shinbushi** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 7:27pm

Originally Posted by MONGO

The fact of the matter, ichimonji is a retarded stance to do anything in other than transition or finish. As a starting or defensive position, it can provide little to no real help. The majority of the **** involved has limited application to armoured fighting (which makes training it even dumber because so little training is in Yaroi).

Ichimonji/lunge punch and all that **** should be utilized as a kata to show morons how to add body weight to their strikes, that is it. Making it lower and forcing people to memorize ancient kamae is not in anyone's interest unless pretending to be a ninja/feudal japanese warrior is the goal. If that is the goal, then why get upset when called a LARPer?

I agree with what you wrote but, whould you then call Koryu guys who know that their art is not useful for modern combat LARPers?

**MONGO** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 7:41pm

No, not really. I would call them historians but the mentality of much of the BJK is very different from the majority of Koryu practicioners.
The majority of the BJK nutriders refuse to accept the fact that somethings are changing in the syllabus and training practices and there is little reasoning behind it. If the Koryu mentality wants to be adhered to, stick to documented technique and simple variations, and ensure that the documentation is verified. That is how Koryu maintains its legitimacy.

Sport martial arts use competition and sportive methods to demonstrate their legitimacy. Judo, for example, has people who write papers from a sport medicine standpoint to clarify points and provide research into methods.

The vast majority of the BJK wants the respect of Koryu without the proof and doesn't want to have to prove it like the Sport martial arts. That is why it is looked at skeptically.

That is why everyone wants to use your dojo as an example of BJK proof in the sportive/competitive/sparring context but the point is missed because your dojo is the exception, not the rule.

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 5/30/2006 7:47pm

Originally Posted by Spunky

Er, did you suddenly turn paraplegic? Not able to adjust to your opponent's angular movement AND minimize your profile?

I am describing the extreme as described by others such as DerAuslander108

And the worst that happens is your opponent gets as big of a target as he would if you were squared off.

Actually, the opponent obtains a far larger target with less balance and manueverability.

And is it not useful at times to virtually force your opponent to move laterally?

I am unaware where I argued otherwise. On the contrary, those in an extreme bladed stance find lateral movement most inconvenient.

What about additional reach from being "bladed" versus squared?

Minor to useless given the lack of mobility and isolation to usefulness of only two limbs.

What about balance and footing on difficult terrain?

Much less in said bladed-stance.

What about having multiple allies and opponents?

What about carrying an AK-47?

What about nuclear weapons?

--J.D.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 12:36am

Originally Posted by Doctor X

I am describing the extreme as described by others such as DerAuslander108

What'd I say?

**katana** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:32am

Originally Posted by MONGO

The fact of the matter, ichimonji is a retarded stance to do anything in other than transition or finish. As a starting or defensive position, it can provide little to no real help. The majority of the **** involved has limited application to armoured fighting (which makes training it even dumber because so little training is in Yaroi).

Not to mention that Ichimonji places your rear arm and leg so far back as to make them almost useless for offensive use. As a result, using such a stance immediately reduces your ability to inflict damage by 50%. Your rear arm and leg are too far back and require such a massive shifting of body weight and hip rotation that you telegraph the strike from a mile away. Also, consider that most people favor the Ichimonji stance that puts your power hand in the rear. That makes the loss of offense even worse. Finally, it forces you to turn very far sideways which makes it very easy to get taken down and hard to react to takedowns or even getting your back taken while standing. I could go on and on about what a horrible way it is to stand. It's very unnatural and robotic.

This stance is not unique to the Bujinkan. I was taught an almost identical stance in traditional Okinawan karate and you still see it a lot in point-sparring oriented schools. It puts your front foot forward for an easy 2-point head kick attempt and keeps your head back so you can't get scored on as well. For point-sparring where takedowns aren't allowed and leg kicks don't count this is a fine stance. For straight on kickboxing or MMA sparring it's a horrible stance.

The Bujinkan stances can't be rationalized for any serious use in unarmed situations when put up against a standard kickboxer/MMA stance. It doesn't matter how deep you make them go, it just makes things worse.

**Virus** · Posted On: 5/31/2006 1:51am

Well they say that their kamae are transitional yet I havn't found any use to transition into or out of them at all. I think they use them becuase it makes thier own techniques work on each other. Like a lot of things in the system such as stepping to evade a punch, it's too slow, inneficient, telegraphing and unworkable in an alive situation.\

Actually if you are talking about leg kicks to the lead leg on a guy in ichimonji they believe they will transition into this as a defence: