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  1. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 10:55am

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    When people duelled with rapiers the stance was extremely low in order to protect the legs. In much modern sport fencing you will see higher stances, especially in foil and sabre where leg hits are not a concern. If you're looking at someone with a straight back leg he's at the end of a lunge, otherwise not.
    The stances themselves weren't that low for rapier duels. Check out "Renaissance Swordsmanship", he shows a stance that is very close height-wise to what we use today.









    It looks similar to, but not as low as, the zenkutsu-dachi I posted before from karate. They wouldn't want to get too low, as a lot of rapier duels had wrestling and takedowns in it as well, plus you needed to be quick with a rapier as since only the point of the rapier was sharp, the edges were dull enough that your opponent could grab the blade without any problem.
  2. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 10:55am

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     Style: 柔術

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kamae is frozen position in "time". Not a stance, not a secret strengthening exercrise. You go for a block, your blocking position (shield) is a kamae.

    God I hate the Bujinkan, stop taking simple **** and making it mystical.
  3. Muqatil is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 10:59am


     Style: BBT/Flinging poo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Virus, everything that was said and that's the one piece you choose to discuss? Sigh.

    I don't know you, virus. From what you have said, I see someone that failed to take ownership of his own training. You wanted it to be spoon fed to you. Most likely you will do the same with your current focus. You will do what you are told in class, talk big about what you do and how awesome it is because everyone else says so, but you will fail to explore on your own.
  4. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:01am

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Muqatil
    Virus, everything that was said and that's the one piece you choose to discuss? Sigh.

    I don't know you, virus. From what you have said, I see someone that failed to take ownership of his own training. You wanted it to be spoon fed to you. Most likely you will do the same with your current focus. You will do what you are told in class, talk big about what you do and how awesome it is because everyone else says so, but you will fail to explore on your own.
    I fail to see how a desire for realistic training qualifies as wanting to be spoon-fed. Very few Bujinkan schools do this, and when you get looked down on for going outside of it to actually find what you need or catch flack because you're sparring or doing alive training with it, it does tend to get on one's nerves.
  5. PointyShinyBurn is offline
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Koto_Ryu
    The stances themselves weren't that low for rapier duels. Check out "Renaissance Swordsmanship", he shows a stance that is very close height-wise to what we use today.
    ...
    It looks similar to, but not as low as, the zenkutsu-dachi I posted before from karate. They wouldn't want to get too low, as a lot of rapier duels had wrestling and takedowns in it as well, plus you needed to be quick with a rapier as since only the point of the rapier was sharp, the edges were dull enough that your opponent could grab the blade without any problem.
    Though I can't locate them now I've seen some photos of very late duels (1930s-50s) with people fighting out of much, much lower stances than that. This is not necessarily incompatible with good mobility in fencing if you've got decent footwork.
  6. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:16am

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    Though I can't locate them now I've seen some photos of very late duels (1930s-50s) with people fighting out of much, much lower stances than that. This is not necessarily incompatible with good mobility in fencing if you've got decent footwork.
    Those are a good couple hundred years old, last one's late 1800's.

    From what I've been taught so far (learning the rapier from a friend of mine, primarily Italian fencing), the feet are about shoulder-width apart and no more and the stance is more forward than the fencing stance nowadays. It's very similar to a boxing stance. This is the basic guardia that's taught, at least through ARMA/HEMA. The footwork is also a lot less fluid than in modern fencing, it's a lot more natural and straight-forward.

    I'll have to dig up "The Secret History of the Sword", I think he did make mention of the stances on one or two occasions. He basically dispels a lot of myths and misconceptions about Renaissance swordsmanship and fencing in that work, a good read.
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:23am

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     Style: Kakutogi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PointyShinyBurn
    Yeah Virus, you really ought to train in the Bujinkan to 3rd Dan or something before you presume to have an opinion...
    It funny how when somthing like the Buj is criticized pple tend to assume the critic has no knowledge or experience with the subject. They don't seem to acknowledge that we have many current and former Buj yudansha here. (Although dan rank in the Buj is almost meaningless.)
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
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  8. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:25am

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     Style: 柔術

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Virus, can you rank me Shodan in the BJK? So I can bash it legit?
  9. Muqatil is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:41am


     Style: BBT/Flinging poo

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    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    It funny how when somthing like the Buj is criticized pple tend to assume the critic has no knowledge or experience with the subject. They don't seem to acknowledge that we have many current and former Buj yudansha here. (Although dan rank in the Buj is almost meaningless.)

    His experience with the Bujinkan wasn't questioned here, just his experience with the person he chose to target. I know and repsect the fact that guys like you and Mongo have experience. I don't have to agree with everything you say, but I can at least listen to your opinons and make a decision based on my experiences also.:shock:
  10. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2006 11:46am

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     Aesopian.com 

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I like how you use faux objectivism to mask your fear that your training is mostly useless.
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