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  1. elipson is offline
    elipson's Avatar

    Ad Hominem rocks.

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 2:49pm

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     Style: BJJ, mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Chill out Shawarma I'm just messin with ya.

    I still think its a bad idea to hire foreigners into the military and place them in a legion comprised of entirely foreigners. I like the idea of earned citizenship, but when they arrive, they have zero loyalty to France. That has to be developed over time, which is assuming they are successful at developing that loyalty. If they are not successful, then you've got a group that is "loyal to the legion first, and France second." You don't see the danger here? Making the officers French nationals is a smart idea, and a necessary one. Doing otherwise would seem like suicide, just like having it operate outside the Army like the doc said it used to before the coup attempt.

    Before that doc I've heard (from former military folks) the FL are little more than mercenaries. After watching it, I feel more strongly about that fact.
  2. Shawarma is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 2:58pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The French military have historically been well aware of the fact that the national composition of the FL might be a problem, so as a result, discipline in the Legion is BRUTAL. Far more brutal than in other French units. Helps keep the apes in line, and from what I hear, they don't have bad problems with subordination in the FL.

    I have been told that there are a fair number of Africans joining lately, because it's a way to get French citizenship after completing your tour of duty. Might be an attractive option for impoverished Africans instead of floating over the strait of Gibraltar in a rubber float.

    As an aside, here is the story of General Butt Naked, Liberian warlord, just because I found it strangely hilarious. http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/L...ofaffairs.html
    Last edited by Shawarma; 5/27/2006 3:01pm at .
  3. Truculent Sheep is offline

    KEIN HAAR APPROVED!

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 4:33pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by elipson
    Chill out Shawarma I'm just messin with ya.

    I still think its a bad idea to hire foreigners into the military and place them in a legion comprised of entirely foreigners. I like the idea of earned citizenship, but when they arrive, they have zero loyalty to France. That has to be developed over time, which is assuming they are successful at developing that loyalty. If they are not successful, then you've got a group that is "loyal to the legion first, and France second." You don't see the danger here? Making the officers French nationals is a smart idea, and a necessary one. Doing otherwise would seem like suicide, just like having it operate outside the Army like the doc said it used to before the coup attempt.

    Before that doc I've heard (from former military folks) the FL are little more than mercenaries. After watching it, I feel more strongly about that fact.
    Another way of viewing it is that the Legion instills a notion that nationality has to be earned rather than just handed out. And your concerns could be applied to any military across the world, let alone the FL. Indeed, apart from the Algerian fiasco, the FL has been steadfastly loyal, which is more than can be said for the various military officers who formed their own dictatorships once they overthrew their leaders.
  4. Mr Han is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 4:39pm


     Style: looking for new style

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I saw some programme about the French Foreign Legion last year. I think it said on that nowadays they often don't allow people with criminal records to join the legion. It also said something about having to hand any driving licenses and passports you might have so you can't get very far if you go AWOL.
    I remember on this programme it mentioned something about when the legion went on this assault course in a south american jungle somewhere. It said that the legion took around 45 minutes to complete it, and it took the other group, I think from the US army, around 6 hours.
  5. Hawkeye is offline
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    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 5:29am

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     Style: Firearms, Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Legion is rough and the training is good. I seriously doubt there will be any sort of coup.
    "We spoke to them in the only language they understood: the machine gun"
  6. TCDD is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 9:34am


     Style: FMA/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are aware that the foreign legion has never won a battle, but they are very good at celabrating their defeats....
  7. Shawarma is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 10:36am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You are apparently referring to Legion's celebration of the battle of Camaron, where 50 legionaires held off about 1500 Mexican troops attacking a supply train en route to a French army besieging a key Mexican city.

    Although outnumbered on a 1 to 30 basis, the Legionaires never surrendered, but kept shooting until they ran out of ammunition, at which point they charged the Mexican army with bayonets. They were understandably slaughtered, but they impressed the Mexican commander so much that he allowed the 3 survivors to leave alive with their flag.
    Because of their sacrifice, the supply train reached the troops and the city fell to the French army soon after.

    I think you'd be hard pressed to think of any great military VICTORIES that were halfway as badass as this particular defeat. The closest one I can think of would be the battle at Rourke's Drift, where 150 British colonial troops routed 5000 zulus, and the zulus weren't anywhere near as well-trained or equipped as the Mexican army.

    The defeat is not what the FL celebrates. It's the bravery and sacrifice of the soldiers making their last stand.
  8. TCDD is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 12:08pm


     Style: FMA/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, I was referring to nearly every major battle the legion has fought, algeria, dien bein phu, camaron... against its own government....

    and to paraphrase a famous tactician (who may have been sun tzu, i can't remember)

    'don't fear surrender, for it lets you fight your enemy another day...'
  9. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 12:20pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by El Macho
    I wonder how US laws affect US citizens joining the legion. One of the first things I learned when I got my citizenship was that US citizens were not allowed to participate in foreign armies. If I'm not mistaken, one could even lose his US citizenship, even if you were a US-born one (the other reason being treason.)

    Anyways, this is interesting... specially about the Mongolian dude joining in. More interesting still to see how the diversity of nationalities actually help create a more cohesive force.
    They look down on it a lot. They can possibly revoke your citizenship for it, though France will give you one after your term of service. I read up a lot on them after reading about some of their battles, you've gotta have some brass balls to be in the FFL.
  10. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 12:23pm

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     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma
    The French military have historically been well aware of the fact that the national composition of the FL might be a problem, so as a result, discipline in the Legion is BRUTAL. Far more brutal than in other French units. Helps keep the apes in line, and from what I hear, they don't have bad problems with subordination in the FL.
    It's one of the strictest military organizations out there so they definitely have their fair share of disciplinary violence. You can easily be tossed in a jail cell for a while for just one misconduct, and "pain over paperwork" is their philosophy for having you learn from a mistake.

    Not surprisingly, they also have one of the highest desertion rates.
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