Armbar Angle Poll

[GoldenJonas]

One of the best defenses for an armbar is to point your thumb to the ground, bend the elbow and roll out backwards.

right, clear the knee over your head and roll backwards.

Position 'C' is impossible to do if you cannot roll up backwards over your shoulder. Holding the leg makes this impossible. So it really isn't the angle of the armbar, but rather the impossibility that they can use thier last ditch escape.

right, the "last ditch" is almost imposible to perform from "C" esspecially if your knees are tight and you have the leg. The escape I saw (used) from "C" was not the "last ditch" escape but was to roll onto the guy applying the arm-bar and using my right leg/knee to break the grip (assuming the bar is applied to my left arm) or otherwise make the guy trying to bar me uncomfortable to give me an oppotunity to pull the arm out and reverse the situation. As I said before it is a bit of a cluster **** for the reversal/escape but it seemed to work.

Thus everything equal in all of the angles, i.e., leg placement, tight knees, securing the arm, the "cluster ****" escape was all I saw left and it was easier to do from "C" than from "A" or "B".

Now let me explain why I said that I can go from B to C in a single armbar. I may step over the head from a Kimura. I step over the head and extend the arm. The problem is I don't have have my other leg over his chest. It is simply under his armpit. This is an ideal situation to use the escape I described above. So to stop this I will swing my body toward his legs as I extend the arm in an effort to 'catch' that leg and control it as I extend the armbar.

perfect counter to the last ditch when transitioning from the kimura to the arm bar where your leg is stuck in the arm pit. Makes perfect sense to me.

Now this might be a great opportunity as he struggles to put my other leg over his chest. That might allow me to to swing back into position 'A'. Or possibly back to 'B' depending on his movement. There is no absolute solution here.

I agree

The main problem with many people's armbars is they are sloppy. Feet come of the ground, knees not squeezed, and not 'hooking' back into the guys head/neck. They go kinda straight and maybe cross thier feet a little bit and go stiff as a board throughout thier body. When guys do this it doesn't matter what position, A B or C you have - they are going to get loose. But it will be MUCH EASIER for them in position C if you have bad leg mechanics.

I think we are saying the same thing = Bad/Sloppy arm bars are easiest to escape from position C, BUT a crappy arm bar is a crappy arm bar and it your execution and application is sloppy your probably going to fail irregardless of the angle A, B, or C.

Something that I will mention in passing but do not want to dwell on is how to grab the guys leg in position C. Everyone has thier own way. But if you pull them to you instead of going to them, as option C illustrates you create less of an opportunity for your partner to escape. Think about bending them sideways as you hook thier leg. That might help.

Good idea, the twist could block the the opposite leg from coming over and hinder the "cluster ****" escape.

In my mind the perfect armbar is A. That is personal preference. Why? Because I have options here. Other people's armbar C might have options - for instance it will be easier to transition to a kneebar or triangle. You get what I am saying?

It is more about personal preference and details than it is about an absolute and definitive answer.

agreed.

[chingythingy]

I voted "it depends". I feel like there are much more important factors to finishing an armbar than angle A,B,C.

One of the things I've been working on lately is first getting the knees tight in transition as early as possible, and second pinning the head to the mat with leg pressure (prevents rolling escapes). On an inverted, just knees tight early.

[GIJoe6186]

I was taught that position C is something you go to after having secured position A but feel he is trying to escape. Position A is the textbook arm bar. But maybe your opponent is very good at escape for whatever reason. By grabbing the pant leg(or leg itself if no-gi) you can stop any rolling escape. Depending on which way he tries to roll out you can stiff arm the leg, pull on the leg or even lift it a bit making it impossible for him to roll. This is how I was taught to use it.

If you end in position B and the tap does not come right away slowly move to A and then to B. Like a heirarchy of positions in the submission I guess.

[Aesopian]

Looking through my academy's photos I found one that clearly shows option C:

[GoldenJonas]

Huh....If that is "C" /\/\, then we are talking VERY minor variations in angle between the three positions. If that is "C" then my answer will change a bit in that I find myself here all of the time.

[daimyo]

I usually go for C. I like to go for kataha jime when in rear mount, then swivle and grab the pant leg to go for armbar "C".