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View Poll Results: Which angle is best for an Armbar?

Voters
89. You may not vote on this poll
  • A - straight

    27 30.34%
  • B - 45 degrees towards head

    13 14.61%
  • It depends.

    36 40.45%
  • C - 45 degrees towards legs

    13 14.61%
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  1. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 3:07pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Depends.
    More human than human is our motto.
      #11
  2. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 8:07pm

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     Style: na

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I routinely use all 3 but its a my most often used submission. I prefer to use A when fighting larger opponents because of the upper body control and its the most easily obtained position if I have to break grip during armbar defense.
      #12
  3. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 11:53pm

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     Style: 5.56

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sometimes I start at B and go all the way to C in the same armbar.
      #13
  4. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    An American Hero!

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2006 1:21am

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     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I usually want either A or C but it depends on the situation. I like C because I think its the hardest to escape.
      #14
  5. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2006 2:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
    I usually want either A or C but it depends on the situation. I like C because I think its the hardest to escape.
    OK, honestly, this is the first time I have seen the "C" angle for an armbar referrenced as being a viable option.

    So, I have been trying to roll it for the past two days and have had my partners try it on me as well so I could see for myself the utility of the movement and attempt.

    Out of the three, IMO, "C" is by far the easiest to escape. Although as jpn said the leg submissions are there for the taking simply because the best way to escape the arm bar from "C" has been to roll into the guy applying it. More often then not, in my exerience over the past two days (maybe 30 total attempts) ends up in a general cluster **** and scramble for position but never-the-less counters the arm bar.

    Now the arm bar is definitley viable from all three angles (with "B" being the most painful because it can also hit the shoulder depending on your flexability), but "C" seems to be 3rd best of the three.

    Now I will freely admit that I have no where near the experience of Yrkoon9 but from what I saw "C" looks to be the worst option for angle.
      #15
  6. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2006 3:34pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't agree. I feel B would be easier to slip out of and C is usually complimentet by grabbing their pants to avoid them rolling as shown.

    Then there are several methods of breaking the grip. And often you go back and forth between these while straightening the arm. Or at least I do and usually end up in A after going through either B or C depending on where I'm getting the armbar from.

    Like I said. It depends.
    More human than human is our motto.
      #16
  7. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2006 3:43pm

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     Style: Rex Kwon Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I shoot for C, but am happy with A.
      #17
  8. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Brock Sampson

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2006 6:31pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GoldenJonas,

    I will explain WHY option C is difficult to escape.

    One of the best defenses for an armbar is to point your thumb to the ground, bend the elbow and roll out backwards. If you are unfamiliar with this escape you should learn it. It is most applicable as someone is fully extending your arm. In short it is your 'last ditch' escape.


    Position 'C' is impossible to do if you cannot roll up backwards over your shoulder. Holding the leg makes this impossible. So it really isn't the angle of the armbar, but rather the impossibility that they can use thier last ditch escape.

    Now let me explain why I said that I can go from B to C in a single armbar. I may step over the head from a Kimura. I step over the head and extend the arm. The problem is I don't have have my other leg over his chest. It is simply under his armpit. This is an ideal situation to use the escape I described above. So to stop this I will swing my body toward his legs as I extend the arm in an effort to 'catch' that leg and control it as I extend the armbar.

    Now this might be a great opportunity as he struggles to put my other leg over his chest. That might allow me to to swing back into position 'A'. Or possibly back to 'B' depending on his movement. There is no absolute solution here.

    Now lets stop a moment and think about why position 'C' might be easier to escape. Probably due to bad mechanics with your own legs. You can see through the diagram that when you swing towards his legs, his head turns towards your feet, correct? That would allow him to bring his head up between your legs with the help of his free arm.

    I am assuming this is how your opponent is escaping. It only makes sense.

    To stop this from happening your armbar mechanics need to be correct. Namely your feet need to be on the floor. You knees need to be squeezing together. And you need to be almost doing a hamstring curl with your legs. So that he feels your achilles tendon digging into his neck as you drive your feet into the ground.

    The main problem with many people's armbars is they are sloppy. Feet come of the ground, knees not squeezed, and not 'hooking' back into the guys head/neck. They go kinda straight and maybe cross thier feet a little bit and go stiff as a board throughout thier body. When guys do this it doesn't matter what position, A B or C you have - they are going to get loose. But it will be MUCH EASIER for them in position C if you have bad leg mechanics.

    Something that I will mention in passing but do not want to dwell on is how to grab the guys leg in position C. Everyone has thier own way. But if you pull them to you instead of going to them, as option C illustrates you create less of an opportunity for your partner to escape. Think about bending them sideways as you hook thier leg. That might help.

    In my mind the perfect armbar is A. That is personal preference. Why? Because I have options here. Other people's armbar C might have options - for instance it will be easier to transition to a kneebar or triangle. You get what I am saying?

    It is more about personal preference and details than it is about an absolute and definitive answer.
    Last edited by Yrkoon9; 5/26/2006 6:34pm at .
      #18
  9. RoninPimp is offline
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    BJJ Black Belt

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 4:39pm

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     Style: Rex Kwon Do

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is there something weird going on with this thread? My user control panel says there are new posts on this thread, but the last one I can see is Yrkoon9's from 7:31pm yesterday...
      #19
  10. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 4:49pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every time someone votes on a poll, the thread gets bumped, regardless of whether or not the voter posts.
    Shut the hell up and train.
      #20
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