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  1. katana is offline

    Capitalist Pig

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,368

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 1:54am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, no-gi, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Anyone who can think in a logical manner would only have to look at what we are saying and know that we have a vaid point. That although the Bujinakn may have good techniques which can work, it all comes down to training method. Without hard athletic training, without sparring you have no real way of knowing what works under pressure.
    I never ran across a single senior Bujinkan instructor in my direct training or at the US Taikais that used alive training methods. In fact it wasn't until I got onto Bullshido that I saw Shinbushi's posts that showed me there is at least one that trains that way.

    I've heard from time to time various instructors who "train realistically." Invariably I'd see them train in person and it was the same old stuff. The problem, you see, is that Hatsumi is teaching very soft training methods ala Aikido. The instructors see this and then go back and mimic it with their students, etc. This has been going on for a very looooooonnnnnng time now. So now you have a lot of cognitive dissonance in the ranks. A lot of the senior Bujinkan people see things like UFC, MMA, etc. but they don't want to believe it works because Hatsumi says it doesn't work and they shouldn't train that way. When you give someone like Hatsumi almost God-like reverence it is very hard to think the man is just plain wrong.

    So you see it won't matter if you get them here to argue it or not. We'll say "You don't train realistically!" they'll say "We are a 1000 year old combat tradition and we train to kill, not to win competitions." and on and on and on.

    It won't change until you get each and every one of them to a sport-based gym to get their asses kicked. Even then it may not change most of them but you may get a few that convert. Believe me I've tried to get my former Bujinkan people to at least *try* a BJJ or MMA class and they'll have nothing to do with it. They firmly believe that Bujinkan is all they need because Hatsumi says it's all the need. I know the critics will say "Hatsumi doesn't say that! He encourages cross training!" and I think that is a load of garbage. If he really thinks that perhaps he should lead by example or be very blunt about it to his minions when they train in Japan. Perhaps as a special class he can invite all the 10th+ Dans in the world to his Dojo. Then he can raise up a curtain and unleash a class of shodan Judoka to beat the snot out of them for a while. Now that would be incredibly useful but it will never happen and even if it DID happen it still wouldn't matter because a lot of the senior BJK people like their fantasy world just fine thank you and don't want it to change.
  2. Matsufubu is offline
    Matsufubu's Avatar

    To the Bat Pole!

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    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,757

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 1:55am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Holy crap, somebody call Hatsumi and tell him to come to Bullshido! Hannibal's cracked it!
    Mr Politically Correct GIJoe6186:
    Fat people disgust me in every way imaginable. I was at Freindly's with my girl tonight and saw a bunch of fat fuckers. I felt sorry for the pavement they were killing and the people who had to see them. .
  3. Virus is offline
    Virus's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Aug 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    6,967

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 4:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  4. Matsufubu is offline
    Matsufubu's Avatar

    To the Bat Pole!

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,757

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 5:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, you really have it in for the Bujinkan, don't you?
    Mr Politically Correct GIJoe6186:
    Fat people disgust me in every way imaginable. I was at Freindly's with my girl tonight and saw a bunch of fat fuckers. I felt sorry for the pavement they were killing and the people who had to see them. .
  5. Rubber Tanto is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    907

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 9:08am


     Style: Bujutsu / Muay Thai / MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Holy crap that was really bad. I always worry when a very high ranked instructor needs to wait for the "I'm gonna start now" nod from his opponent before he attacks...you'd think by that rank he could pick it coming yeah?
    :pancakebu
  6. DerAuslander is offline
    DerAuslander's Avatar

    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    18,451

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 9:28am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Oh my god...

    That was the worst example of kata performance I have ever seen...
  7. Spunky is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    905

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 10:29am


     Style: Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I almost snorted coffee through my nose when I saw that the FIRST time.
  8. shinbushi is offline
    shinbushi's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Aug 2002
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    Manhattan Beach, California, United States
    Posts
    897

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 2:23pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    nothing new. My only question is why have your dojo name be a creature that looks like this?
  9. shinbushi is offline
    shinbushi's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Manhattan Beach, California, United States
    Posts
    897

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 2:29pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by katana
    I "Hatsumi doesn't say that! He encourages cross training!" and I think that is a load of garbage. If he really thinks that perhaps he should lead by example or be very blunt about it to his minions when they train in Japan. Perhaps as a special class he can invite all the 10th+ Dans in the world to his Dojo. Then he can raise up a curtain and unleash a class of shodan Judoka to beat the snot out of them for a while. Now that would be incredibly useful but it will never happen and even if it DID happen it still wouldn't matter because a lot of the senior BJK people like their fantasy world just fine thank you and don't want it to change.
    It will never happen. Soke's goal is not to create fighters. It is to as he calls it create bright lights. For people to enjoy their training, and as such be happier people and treat others around them better. He is an old guy, most old people get very spiritual at that age(or crotchety and anti-spiritual) When he retires there will be 10x more organizations created then when Ueshiba died.
  10. Killing Moon is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    448

    Posted On:
    5/31/2006 4:32pm


     Style: Chinese Martial Arts

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I've never seen this video before.

    I've always read about Hatsumi, but jeezus. This was utterly ridiculous. It doesn't look much different from the constant Aikido rubbish that I see so often.
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