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  1. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 4:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No, no, no. They don't do bodyweight exercise. They recommend bodyweight exercise.

    They're basically ninja consultants.
    *********************************************
  2. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 6:25pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most ninjas that I trained with did no conditioning. Some guys were overweight, sometimes grossly so, or so skinny you could see through them. In BJJ it's pretty much assumed that you are training with weights, combined with the fact that BJJ training is high intensity.

    Edit: BJJ pwns again.
  3. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2006 9:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have to say I haven't encountered too many grossly overweight or out of shape pple in the upper ranks of the Genbukan. They're some but it appears that the Buj is far superior in that department.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  4. VikingPower is offline
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    Yes Koto got his name changed, quit asking...

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2006 12:03am

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushin Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They just have more ki and need more room to store it. Admit it.

    This is why I liked Shihan Legare's Taka Seigi approach. He at least had some conditioning requirements for his testing (knucke pushups, situps, squats, and in the later ones pull-ups). Definitely a good step in the right direction.
  5. sci-mdk is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 6:00pm


     Style: Buj. budo taijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm ; it's interesting to see this side of the story.
    To me the thing didn't come as a surprise ; toshindo is Hayes' main "load" ( an-shu , for #censored!# sake... ) and bujinkan seemed to be only a ride along for years...

    I agree to the fact that Hayes brought the bujinkan to the west but that also caused a load of **** that still remains a bit 'dirty' up to today.
    In the meanwhile he tought out the toshindo thing and got stuck on that.
    Imho he had a choice of play and didn't choose , fact that Hatsumi soke made it a bit more dramatic by take the tag of the board is a bit weird but the man only seems to be doing weird things ;)

    Personally , i like this move.
    I rather like to see tons of those martial merchants "kicked out" the next thing tomorrow.
    It will clear at least a little bit of the dirt and makes training more honest for more people.

    After all ; it's budo , not sports ...
  6. shinbushi is offline
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    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 7:02pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From http://www.skhquest.com/Articles/WordsFromAnShu.aspx
    conserning his hamon
    Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - Wild hysterical internet rumors again! Have you heard these rumors of Hatsumi Sensei no longer being my sensei? We've heard nothing from Hatsumi Sensei himself of course, but since several people are trying their best to promote these rumors I should address them here. These kinds of rumors pop up on the internet every year or so, and I have always found it better to ignore them publicly and allow folks to discover the truth themselves in time. But these current rumors are so virulent that it seems appropriate to acknowledge them here.

    Just weeks ago, Rumiko and I had a delightful time training and speaking with Hatsumi Sensei in Japan. Hatsumi Sensei will always be "my sensei" and as always I accord him my highest respect and gratitude for all he has shared with me. I have written to him to ask what he would like us to say at this point.

    I will report back on this blog immediately as soon as we hear from Hatsumi Sensei, so do not bother to e-mail or phone the Dayton Hombu office - nothing more we can tell you for now. Meanwhile, use this time of confusion to re-dedicate your practice to the highest of ideals. You know why you are training. You know what your goals are. You know what your greatest challenges are. Train diligently and sincerely so that by the end of each day, you are a little closer to being the tatsujin "person of actualized perfection" that you strive to become. Find the teachers that inspire you to greatness, and seek out training partners that bring out your best. Do not allow negative people to distract you. Jealous ones may plot to demean your hard-earned success. Fearful ones may scheme to avoid your intimidating skill. But you persevere nonetheless. Nin-po Ik-kan is the way you must live - embodying "consistent warrior training" no matter what obstacles come along that day.
  7. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 7:10pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder if a lot of this has to do with Hayes being a part of the organization back when it sounds like it was promoting different claims than it is now, about teaching "ninjutsu" versus "budo taijutsu" as well as Hatsumi shaking hands with a whole bunch of frauds in the 1980s.

    The thing is, of course, that Hatsumi has made it abundantly clear that the ranks don't matter except for maybe 5th dan and when he dies, it'll all depend on who has traditional licensing anyway. That's when a bunch of people with menkyo kaiden in the schools will have at it and all the other "15th dans" will have no input into the process at all. Then of course, the license-holders will have to fight with koryu guys about their lineages, since some of them are of dodgy historical provenance.

    I would laugh my ass off if it came out that Hayes had a bunch of legit licenses he had under wraps, since that would automatically trump all the claims by "mere" Buj 15th dans that have been ****-talking him over the years.
  8. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 10:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by eyebeams
    ...as well as Hatsumi shaking hands with a whole bunch of frauds in the 1980s.
    Can you elaborate on this please?
  9. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 10:42pm


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Can you elaborate on this please?
    Here's one collection I could find offhand. Hayes is in there too:

    http://www.ninja-training.com/pictures/grandmaster.html

    I've seen others. Is it their fault? Not *necessarily.* I'm sure lots of people get their pics taken with him. Then again, Hatsumi is so revered that in one context him being somewhere is a mark of wry orireintal wise approval, and in another he's obviously being polite and terribly indirect.

    But as I recall it, Bujinkan folks weren't looking too hard at people's lineages when they were riding the wave in the 80s -- not too hard at all. They all mixed freely at "ninja summits" back then. Tetsuya Higuchi comes to mind, too.

    MAP's locked thread on this also has some interesting stuff about the Westerners who trained with Hatsumi *before* Hayes, and how they were allegedly offered quick recognition in a conscious attempt to build his organization.

    As for the licensing: Well, Hatsumi has said he gives belt ranks as a "challenge" and such, but on the flipside, I've never heard of him granting menkyo trivially. In fact, he seems to have stopped doing it completely, which may be part of the dispute with Hayes (if such a thing actually exists). Hatsumi hands out belts like candy, but he's apparently not so liberal with actual licenses. This is undestandable, since licensing is what actually gives someone the "right" to go their own way, and we've seen what happened with Tanemura there.
    Last edited by eyebeams; 5/29/2006 10:49pm at .
  10. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2006 11:03pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Seems to me the simple statement: "He is still my sensei," would have sufficed unless it is not actually true.

    The wafflng and need to "check withs" rather indicate otherwise.

    --J.D.
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