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  1. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:06pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Steven Hayes ditches the BJK

    Found this on a forum. Looks like either Hatsumi cut him off, or he has decided to ditch the Bujinkan. A post on shinkentaijutsu.com states as such.

    From: http://shinkentaijutsu.com/bb/viewto...256&highlight=

    "Sunday, April 23, 2006 - Rumiko and I rode the trains to Noda City for training at Masaaki Hatsumi’s Bujinkan Hombu dojo on a rainy Sunday afternoon. It was a nostalgic feeling to walk the streets of Noda once again, and I was amazed at how much the small industrial city has not changed in the 30 years I have been coming here. Elsewhere in Japan, everything seems to be modernizing at a faster than rapid pace, the old and worn being replaced with new and modern in a way that outclasses even America.

    On the other hand, the training hall experience was something totally different from what I had known in the 1970s and 1980s when I was training as an apprentice with Hatsumi Sensei. When I left Japan to return to American residency in the early 1980s, a typical training class was about 12 people, with 18 at most. Once my books and magazine articles about Hatsumi Sensei’s art had captivated the martial arts world’s imagination by the mid-1980s, foreign students began pouring into Japan seeking the experience I had found. On this rainy Sunday in April, the small Hombu Dojo building of Masaaki Hatsumi was more than packed with easily 60 to 70 people from all over the globe. Of course this kind of crowd makes real training impossible for the students who work to imitate Hatsumi Sensei in the shoulder-to-shoulder and butt-to-butt crowd, but amazingly enough, no one seems to complain. Indeed, the real focus and seemingly the whole point of the 2 hours in the Hombu seems to be watching Hatsumi Sensei perform.

    Instruction consisted of Masaaki Hatsumi creating technique after technique on the fly, with the crowd of students looking on from tightly packed rings around the center of the dojo. Sometimes Hatsumi Sensei would explain what he was doing, as though the students would be able to discern the details after only one quick demonstration. Other times, Hatsumi Sensei would clearly avoid the real key to what he had done, and explain at great detail some minor point that may or may not have had any real effect on the technique’s outcome. I watched carefully to see if the students could tell which was the key advice and which was the decoy tossed out to confuse or distract them. After several minutes of creative demonstration, Hatsumi Sensei would call out the command, “Play”, and the students would dutifully try to imitate what the headmaster had done.

    I used to think that this form of tricky teaching was something unique to Hatsumi Sensei, something only he did as a way of seeing which students were the sharp ones and which were the dull. Actually, it turns out to be very much a Japanese cultural norm in closely-held traditional technique systems handed down from master to student. Isshisoden - transmission from one master to one true student - is an undeniable Japanese cultural artifact, wherein one student sharp enough to perceive and steal away the master’s secrets gets the goods, and all of the rest are relegated to getting whatever small benefit they might while serving as training dummies and bill-payers to facilitate the exclusive transmission process. It is obviously up to Masaaki Hatsumi as the headmaster of his nine ryu-ha to pick the most appropriate way of handing on his legacy. It is important to note, however, why I needed to change the teaching method I experienced in Japan if our To-Shin Do were to become a useful endeavor in the lives of our Western students.

    A few Japanese students were in attendance, but the vast majority of people training in the Bujinkan Hombu these days are foreigners in Japan. I asked my friend Toshiro Nagato, with whom I used to co-teach ninja taijutsu at the Minato-ku Sports Center in Tokyo in the late 1970s, where all the Japanese were. He smiled and said that the plan was to have more Japanese from now on, now that the huge number of foreigners had made the training look more attractive or valuable to the Japanese. I smiled back in response to this same line that I have heard for so many years, and commented that with Hatsumi Sensei’s emphasis on free creative movement and seeming disdain for rigid formal technique with clearly defined forms, many (most?) Japanese would be uncomfortable in such a training environment. Nagato-san agreed unhesitatingly, acknowledging the key reason why so few Japanese can identify with Hatsumi Sensei’s approach.

    Masaaki Hatsumi’s techniques for the day were based on working with skillful timing and body placement in a confusing relationship with what an attacker might expect. Effortless, even seemingly moving in slow motion, Hatsumi Sensei more allowed his attackers to find themselves in ineffectual positions than made them fail. As always, he constantly smiled and laughed all through his instruction demonstrations, and seemed to be enjoying what he was doing. He would call out a person to be his uke, throw them around and tie them up, and then command the audience to give it a try for a minute or two before taking center stage again. He did not interact or work with students at all during the momentary “play” sessions. It was up to the students to get it themselves. Standing at the edge of the crowd as the students struggled to duplicate his unique movements, Hatsumi Sensei reminded Rumiko and me of how he has never claimed to enjoy teaching, and much prefers performing. Like a rock star on stage before a crowd of adoring fans, he seems very much in his element now.

    At the end of the class, several participants were given the sword test for 5th Degree Bujinkan rank. The Bujinkan is so big now that of course Sensei himself does not know the students who now come to Japan for their 5th Degree, so the test is no longer a matter of verifying connection with Hatsumi Sensei as it once was explained to me in the 1970s. Nonetheless, I was a bit surprised (OK, I’d heard the rumors…) to see that Hatsumi Sensei no longer administers the test himself, and instead has senior students – Japanese and foreigners alike - swing the sword down at the waiting heads where he once was the sole administrator. To me, this was a majorly significant change in program and procedure, but after all the years and all the changes, I have become more and more used to the admonition, Ban-pen Fu-kyo – “After ten thousand changes, no surprise.”

    After training, Hatsumi Sensei invited Rumiko and me to lunch with him and Toshiro Nagato and Isamu Shiraishi. Hatsumi Sensei spoke of his vision of where he is now in his life of 75 years so far. Sensei gave Rumiko and me some suggestions for our own training and teaching work in the West, suggestions that he made us promise not to tell anyone else outright, but to put into motion and slowly allow them to become evident over time. I would be foolish or disrespectful to betray my teacher’s instructions, so let me just say for now stay tuned to our programs, DVDs, and new books to see Hatsumi Sensei’s advice in action."

    I don't know much about SKH, from what I've seen he looks a bit kooky. But some of the stuff he says mirrors some of the stuff to come out of our recent bujinkan threads. I particularly took note of how he says that Hatsumi is a showman. That's what it seems to be nowdays, you go to Japan, pay your hefty training fee then sit back and watch a show and applaud. Now, I like his shows too, seeing the guy pull off wierd and wonderful demos is a sight to behold but if you think it's applicable to real fighting then you're a MAP-for-brains.
  2. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:11pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me say, as a non BJK member, you already said Hatsumi is very smart and knows how to sell.


    SKH is exactly the same. Go through his websites on the wayback machine and old books. You will see how he changed to fit the marketing....I mean times. He is seeing a growth opprotunity as you guys hash things out on forums. You will see everything you have ever read on forums on these new DVDs.
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    ...
    Now, I like his shows too, seeing the guy pull off wierd and wonderful demos is a sight to behold but if you think it's applicable to real fighting then you're a MAP-for-brains.
    Did he just insult MAP?
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  4. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Let me just say that I hate more than anything, the kind of pseudo-mystical BS that is embodied in the concept of instructors that "don't teach you the good stuff because they keep the secrets to themselves and their favorite students." **** them and their BS elitist mentality. There is no more secrets. We live in the information age. We are living in the age of martial artists viewing their arts and styles scientifically rather than religiously. If Hatsumi has a secret technique that he won't teach his students, I guarantee that someone else out there already figured it out. There's only so many ways to efficiently utilize the human body in a combative situation. Religions have no place in a search for such knowledge.
  5. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    Did he just insult MAP?
    that wasn't Hayes, the last paragraph was Virus' comments.
  6. Plasma is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:26pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It look to me that even Stephen Hayes has become disillusioned with the BJK. Considering he is the one that brought BJK to the states, that said ALOT.
  7. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    that wasn't Hayes, the last paragraph was Virus' comments.
    D'OH! I skimmed it and missed that.

    Ttoo bad, though. That would have been funny.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  8. GranoblasticMan is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 12:21am


     Style: BJJ, WMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I remember buying one of Hayes' books probably about six or seven years back (I'm only 20, so I was still in my youthful fantasy stage). Hell, I would even look in the yellowpages for schools that taught "ninjutsu" (or -jitsu, or however you want to spell it... I honestly don't care). I thought Hayes knew his ****.

    Now I'm by no means a genius, but I'm surprised now that I fell for one of the most common advertising ploys, the testimonial.

    To make a long story short, I finally found BSD and all is well... I'm hoping Hayes has finally seen the light as well.

    (Oh yeah, and that bastard can burn for charging $20 for the 100-page POS booklet I bought)
  9. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 12:42am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Its a sign.

    First, Mongo leaves the Bujinakn, then I leave it, then Koto Ryu leaves is, then Virus leaves it....

    The organisation is crumbling.....
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  10. GranoblasticMan is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 12:47am


     Style: BJJ, WMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal
    Its a sign.

    First, Mongo leaves the Bujinakn, then I leave it, then Koto Ryu leaves is, then Virus leaves it....

    The organisation is crumbling.....
    My god, we can only hope.
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