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  1. NSLightsOut is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 7:11pm


     Style: BJJ

    5
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The tao of NSLightsOut: Training, stagnation and tapping

    I've been reading a series of threads in the past week in YMAS and Guantanamo bay about training, the 'win' mentality, and tapping others. They've been bothering me for a while, but I only came to a number of epiphanies last night, based on the totality of my training experience. They're relatively simple and straightforward, but like most things of that nature, they take a while to sink in to my dense noggin.

    Anyhoo, like the conceited jerk I am, I've decided to share the lot with you. This is going to be long

    Stagnation

    Over 4+ years, I've trained with a lot of people. I've had the chance to observe two disparate large groups of people from two different academies and see how they have or haven't developed through training.

    Here's the revelatory part: Every single case of permanent stagnation I have ever seen has involved one common factor: Fear of losing in training.

    This, in my experience, has manifested itself in a number of different ways, including but not necessarily limited to:

    - Fear of losing to people lower in an imagined 'hierarchy' of skill
    - Fear of losing to a lower belt
    - Fear of trying something new if it involves risk
    - The belief that 'not tapping' is always equivalent to a good performance/increase in skill

    The irony is that all of these fears actually are the root cause of permanent skill plateau. This vicious cycle, after a while, seems to almost paralyze development.

    Recently, I've been working with a blue belt who has become stuck in this kind of rut primarily for the first three reasons. He received his blue about six months after I did. The only difference between where he is and where I am is that I realized just what I needed to work on, and came up with a training plan after my disastrous final competition as a white belt.

    He, on the other hand, has consistently been surpassed by white belts and the newer blues because of his fears precluding his development as a BJJer. He uses copious amounts of strength to compensate for technical deficiency. The worst thing is, he realizes it, but still can't overcome his fears of losing to a lower belt, fears likely reinforced over time, as I've seen him choked unconscious more than once on the mat by more talented white belts.

    In the past, I've rolled with higher belts who only deign to train with known quantities; i.e. people they know they can absolutely tool, when there are higher quality training partners available. This being yet another manifestation in the vicious cycle, as they build the fear of going against someone of equal or better skill up in their minds, which could potentially destroy the self-image they have built of their own superiority.

    It behooves us to notice that the two previous examples are generally self-destructive and unhealthy approaches to training. In order to train to your full potential, I believe that there comes a point in everyone's training experience where all of these fears have to be confronted. For myself, it was as a relatively new blue belt, with a game seriously unbalanced towards passing, after getting smashed by more experienced people on the mats of Gracie Barra. There, I came to a number of conclusions that affect me to this day.

    Firstly: The 'hierarchy' of one's own academy is meaningless. Who gives a flying **** if you are a big fish in a small pond? Once you step out of that small pond into a larger, deeper body of water, suddenly everything begins to change. I had that experience when I left the now-defunct Monash University BJJ club for the larger Peter de Been academy, and when I travelled to Brazil to train. Being afraid of being tapped by someone lower on an imaginary chart is just fucking stupid

    Secondly: Losing to a lower belt happens. This is a fact of life, especially when the lower belt begins to approach your own rank or has perfected a few money moves guaranteed to work on just about anyone. Worrying about it leads to the vicious cycle of fear already discussed

    Thirdly: 'Nothing ventured, nothing gained' A pithy phrase to chew on for the last two fears.

    Well, that was fucking long, even by my standards. I'll come back to tapping a bit later
  2. relytjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 7:37pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great post.

    I've trained with some people with that mentality that stagnates their progress. I train in a smaller 'pond' and it sucks to see people take that attitude towards training and get stuck in a rut. Mainly because when they stop increasing in skill then I miss out on a better training partner.

    The kicker for me is how do you help somebody get out of that rut and back on a healthy track for skill progression.
  3. Student is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 7:44pm

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     Style: BJJ, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Great post
  4. Method2Madness is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 7:50pm


     Style: BJJ and MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This post has given me some valuable information. Thanks man.
  5. Qtip inspector is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 8:01pm


     Style: BJJ boxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    great post
  6. NSLightsOut is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 8:47pm


     Style: BJJ

    3
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all your comments, guys. Time for part 2

    Tapping

    I wasn't really happy to see this thread http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=34713 crop up on the forum. Eventually it was moved to Guantanamo Bay, where it belonged. You see, I am a great believer in the article of BJJ etiquette that talking about the people you've submitted in training is a no-no. Anything can happen in training, especially when it's used as it is intended: As a laboratory for experimentation as opposed to a venue for competition. I've been swept, reversed and submitted in training doing some new things, and the same has happened to my training partners. Big Fucking Deal. I do realise that some of the themes in this relate back to my first post, but bear with me for a minute.

    This segment comes as the result of two events. The first of which is a training session I had earlier this year when I had far less time to train than I do now, and went to one of the purple belt-taught classes held on the days when my instructor doesn't make it into Melbourne, only to find that aside from the instructor and another blue belt, it was me and a whole lot of relatively new white belts.

    Suffice it to say that the results of my training that day were not pretty, as the other two colored belts were monopolized by the white belts. In fact, it was the first time in four year that I'd actually been bored at training. For all the supporting members, the recollections of this session are on the first page of my sadly neglected training log.

    After this, I came to a conclusion. Tapping others by itself does not a satisfying training experience make.

    Honestly, I'd consider it a better use of my time if I had a long, tough roll against someone I believe to be of better or equal skill to myself and getting submitted than going through some random n00bs like a chainsaw, unless I'm trying to introduce something to my game, or develop what Roy Harris termed 'at will' grappling, i.e. going for a certain submission that I'm not very good at to begin developing my skills in that area.

    The second event that influenced this was a talk I had at a training partner's farewell party, where we were discussing if anyone had recently submitted one of the higher belts who is notoriously hard to submit. I had done so in the past, with something I'd consider fairly ugly and sloppy, but never repeated the performance. I was almost ashamed to bring it up. It just seemed like a dick thing to do, as it was done in training, using a move illegal under CBJJ rules, using mainly muscle and speed to set it up and crank it.

    Later, when the alcohol had worked its way out of my system, I realized that it was, in fact, a dick move. I mean, this was a singular event that had happened years in the past, basically executed out of sheer fear of losing that only tapped the guy out because he was afraid of injury. How am I supposed to measure my performance by that?

    In conclusion, tapping, especially in training, means ****-all. I now have come to believe that "who can I tap in training" is a fucking lousy way of measuring one's performance. I try to measure my performance not by who can I tap, but what I can do to people in competition, and the amount I learn and accomplish within the 6-month intervals laid out on my personal training plan. The latter seems to translate much better into actual results than asking myself 'where am I in the pecking order?'
  7. JohnnyS is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 10:02pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Excellent post.

    One thing that really annoys me is that some people will be thinking "I tapped a <insert colour> belt" and putting an imaginary notch on their belt even when doing drills! Drills are for trying new things out. Training is for trying new things and working your game. If you really think you can beat the person, ask them for a competition round and see how well you go when they turn it on.

    We had John Will teaching us on Monday which is always enlightening. Before class we (the brown belts and myself) had a private with John and he recommended we work on our defence. He said the number one way to work on your confidence is to work your defence. When you are certain that no-one can tap you, what do you have to fear? You can work any attack you want because if you stuff it up, you don't have to fear being caught in a bad position. He believes JJ Machado is so good because he can do his machine gun attacks because his recovery skills and his defensive skills are so good that he can afford to be fearless then attacking.

    To do that however, you have to put yourself in the bad positions first, not worry about tapping and then look for the patterns E.g. "Everytime he passes my guard and goes for the far-armbar his leg does this. To stop the armbar I just need to stop that happening".

    I'm in a rush and so not being as eloquent as John, but I thought it worth repeating hera and I believe it relates to this topic.
  8. jnp is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2006 11:31pm

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     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank you NSLightsOut for both of the excellent posts. I expect you will do very well in your pursuit of Bjj.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  9. Mjelva is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 10:57am


     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was quite enlightening.
    I don't think I've fallen into this trap yet, but it's just as well to be aware of it, so I never do.
  10. Student is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2006 11:09am

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     Style: BJJ, MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    again - another good post.

    Everybody gets tapped - there are those who learn from it and those who fear it.

    Find anyone who is really good at escaping certain positions or submissions and I can guarantee you that they were tapped out many many times in the process of developing that skill (or if its working escapes they spent many hours being stuck in that position). That's just the way it works.

    I completely agree that you have a lot more fun, and learn more, when you go up against someone who is on your level or better (unless you are working on new moves that you have not made yours yet).

    Everytime you get tapped you just need to analyze what they did right and/or what you did wrong and then add that to your to do list of what to work on. I personally find that's one of the best ways to learn - be really aware of what is going on as you grapple and exactly how a better opponent sets you up for submissions, or how they escape from inferior positions (or hold you in inferior positions). Your mindset will be one of learning and not fear of getting tapped.
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