Posted On:5/23/2006 4:40pm
Style: BJJ, Judo
Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
Sorry but I don't think you would see alot more Kung Fun in MMA. You would see alot of San Da guys in MMA. This kinda reminds me of what Matt Thornton said in the Iceland vid. "Sure you can take JJJ and practice it in an alive manner, but then it would look alot similar to BJJ wouldn't it?" I think the same is true here. You are not going to see guys in horse stance, cat stance or any long fist styles.
The harder Sanda guys fight the more it looks like less refined kickboxing.
An American Hero!
Posted On:5/23/2006 4:45pm
TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ
Originally Posted by Mjelva
The harder Sanda guys fight the more it looks like less refined kickboxing.
Sorry I don't get what you mean. The harder they fight the more it looks like crap? The hardser they fight it looks less like kickboxing but it is still good? I don't understand sorry.
Posted On:5/23/2006 4:53pm
If they took the more applicable techniques and applied them to sparring, that IS Kung Fu. Kung Fu is a striking art. Thats EXACTLY what it should look like in my opinion. I think movies fucked up what people think most TMA are supposed to look like. The throws come from Shui Jiao, the kicks come from various KF disciplines, how is it NOT kung fu?
Posted On:5/23/2006 6:22pm
The story is well documented. There was a time when kung fu was the only martial art in China - arguably, the only martial art in the world. Like a living, breathing thing, kung fu made its way across Asia. Over a period of thousands of years, kung fu underwent a metamorphosis, transforming into different arts in each of the countries it reached. In Japan, there was karate. Korea had Tae Kwon Do. Even the ancient martial arts of the Khmer people of Cambodia could be traced back to Chinese kung fu origins.
The only problem with using this kind of background to legitimize the next paragraphs is that we used to practice medicine by drilling holes in peoples heads and excersize demons instead of treating diseases. The point is just because it's older doesn't mean it's better.
In both Hong Kong and Beijing, the MMA community is mostly composed of Westerners who have a background in Muay Thai and BJJ. Taiwan is probably the only place in the world where San Da is already being used as a base for MMA fighters. This is because Muay thai is almost unknown on the island, and the inhabitants have a long tradition of Chinese kung fu. In a recent competition in Taipei, San Da fighters, with little or no gorund training, won 50% of their fights (these fight had a ten-second ground rule.)
Imagine thier win ratio if they only allowed 10 seconds standing...
San Da actually has a few advantages over Muay Thai, the main one being the sidekick. In the early days of MMA, the only kick deemed effective were roundhouse kicks. but in the most recent MMA competitions, the sidekick has played a more prominent role. Also, Japanese fighters such as Sakaraba have been using jump kicks and jump knees. Kung Fu has a flying sidekick which would be a real surprise to an unsuspecting opponent.
I am beginning to question this authors actual experience. I understand the suprise factor with people like Yves. What the author doesn't seem to consider is the risk v reward comparison. Side kicks cut your weapons in half since you can't punch with the other hand. Considering that it is just a quarter turn until you offer your back the sidekick might be more of a novelty than a staple technique.
Additionally, the San Da fighter should practice throwing the sidekick at his opponent's base lef when the opponent is kicking. With the power that a good kung fu kick has, the base leg would buckle or break instantly.
Uhhh oh....we are entering the realm of theory. Which would further support my theory that the author seems to have very little experience. With the power a good kung fu kick has...hahaha I almost laughed out loud reading that one.
The best way to avoid getting hurt in the clinch is to avoid getting grabbed. In Thailand, a Tui Shou practitioner challenged a number of boxers to grab his head and throw him. Each time the reached at him, he simply redirected their force and threw them to the ground. He kept this up for half an hour, until all of his opponents were exhausted.
You know I heard a story about a karateka who challenged 100 men to punch him in the head. He broke every one of thier hands. It's true. I swear!
Beginning students often see these forms as a chore, a drudgery that they must overcome. but the wise student who analyzes a kung fu form will realize that a single form can be an entire fighting system.
I guess so. But it wouldn't mean much. Without fighting SKILLS the fighting style means nothing. This is a critical point that many traditional martial arts make.
This is a weakness of students, not styles. In theory, a finger spear to a vital organ should end a fight even against the biggest competitor. An ox jaw (the bulbous, bony prominence at the top of the radius and ulna) is much harder than a fist, and is much more likely to cause a knockout when it impacts the opponent's temple.
This guy has a lot of theory. I have one too. He has lost touch with reality.
Fights are now being won by a chop to the head. When a fighter is lying in the guard, he uses the double palm strike to the ears. He uses chops to the clavicles. Fights are being won on spinning back fists. Fighters have discovered that they can't punch a fighter in the head for fear of breaking their own fist. So they have begun using the hammer blow.
Fights won by a chop to the head? ORLY?
Double palm strike to the ears? You mean Sak's double mongolian chop? Marginal if not laughable. Used for entertainment purposes.
And fighters can't punch other fighters for fear of breaking thier fist? ORLY? Funny in just about every fight I see they are still punching. Must be a really small fear. Like the fear of running out of stamps or milk.
Every one of these "new" techniques is an ancient part of kung fu. the original question was, could kung fu be used in MMA? The answer is, it is already being used in MMA. The only question now is, why aren't kung fu practioners using it? The techniques are there. The venues are establishes. Now all that is required is for some brave soul to step into the octagon and shout, "My style is kung fu." If this would happen even once, it would force the martial arts world to realize just how effective kung fu is. and it would probably create some converts.
This guy could have written a much more convincing article on how to modify San Da with more modern MMA techniques and strategies. Instead he went backwards and pissed on himself.
Last edited by Yrkoon9; 5/23/2006 6:25pm at .
Posted On:5/23/2006 7:55pm
Style: the beeg
Sophmoric, in both fact and form. I suggest a revision to the article. Replace all of the text with:
Spar more, bitches.
combat sports hobbyist
He'll flip ya!
Posted On:5/23/2006 9:28pm
I tried making a long winded commentary but Yrkoon as always beat me to it.
The main thing I noticed is that he's keeping to the same old party line that all Kung-foolsss keep with revisionist and apologetic for the reasons why we haven't yet seen a CMA Mastah win a UFC bout.Notice after he metione the rule in UFC against the use of the elbow to strike .But added that Kung-fu has always had a long arsenal of elbow strikes that no one ha noticed before.
"God damn America" --Muammar al-Gaddafi
Posted On:5/23/2006 10:00pm
Style: MT (no, not "empty")
Originally Posted by The Villain
Ok, musta missed some things. The general premise is fine with me though.
Posted On:5/23/2006 10:24pm
Style: creonte on hiatus
My take on this article... not that I know ****.
1. Last time I read, all judo throws and wrestling takedowns are allowed in SanShou. So sprawls would be the norm I would think.
2. Don't know where I've read this (probably in a SanShou forum), but it seems that SanShou practitioners prefer sidekicks over roundhouse kicks because of the takedown/throw factors in the game. Notice that "they prefer sidekicks" =/= "they discard roundhouse kicks".
3. I have a problem with this bullshit... I mean, statement:
The story is well documented. There was a time when kung fu was the only martial art in China - arguably, the only martial art in the world.
4. And also this bullshit...err, statement
The current rules of UFC no longer allow blows with the point of the elbow.
The article seems interesting, but it has some serious bullshit and errors in it.
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Posted On:5/23/2006 10:26pm
Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo
Originally Posted by GIJoe6186
This kinda reminds me of what Matt Thornton said in the Iceland vid. "Sure you can take JJJ and practice it in an alive manner, but then it would look alot similar to BJJ wouldn't it?" I think the same is true here. You are not going to see guys in horse stance, cat stance or any long fist styles.
San Da seems like it took all of the moves that could be safley applied in sparring. Then did just that. It just looks nothing like Kung Fu at all.
Like I said people will credit their Kung Fu school but realy using their San Da sparring. Time would be much better spent practicing San Da and forgetting all the Kung Fu nonsense.
Kung Fu + Aliveness = San Shou/San Da
Karate + Aliveness = Kickboxing
Jujitsu + Aliveness = Judo, BJJ
Kempo = Kung Fu, Karate, Jujitsu
Kempo + Aliveness = San Shou, Kickboxing, Judo, BJJ
Kempo + Aliveness = MMA
KempoFist + Logic + Revelations = KempoFist crying into a bowl of icecream
i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!
Posted On:5/23/2006 11:01pm
Style: karate / bjj
so basically, one day the author will have an epiphany: "when kung fu guys take up kickboxing, they become much more effective fighters!"
question - is it actually legal to box one's opponent's ears in ufc?
the oxjaw thing (strike with the outside/back of the wrist?) sounds quite impressively dangerous to attempt on any sort of physical target. first time i've really heard of the technique however.
and as much as i love a good sidekick, i know *i'm* certainly not fast enough to use one as a counter to a round kick in progress.
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