Sangaku Garami (Omoplata) Stoppage

**MONGO** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 1:55am

Well in response to Yrkoon's rant, I'll say that I like the guys in the dojo so I won't be balistically doing any omopolatas.

Sometimes, I get the best refs that will let ground fight go because they understand position, sweeps and other **** like that. Other times, I get the fucking ref that doesn't know what a triangle choke from guard looks like.

**Boyd** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 2:40am

I was going to say this:

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

I finish maybe 1 in 8 omoplatas.

Followed by this:

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

I am deeply embarassed about the shiai rules regarding newaza. You can full force throw a guy on his head, but if an armlock even looks like your opponents shoulder might be turning than it's matte.

And I wasn't going to say anything about this, but I always wondered about

I went for an Ude Garami but the guy straightened his arm. So there I was pinning the guy and had him in an armlock with the fulcrum RIGHT UNDER HIS ELBOW and the referee called matte.

that.

But what I really wanted to say more than anything else was

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

Judo rules fucking suck. They fucking suck so fucking bad that just writing about this makes me sick to my stomach. I am absolutely livid the way Judo newaza is frowned on by many judges and referees. Even if something is legal they are likely to stop it.

And perhaps most importantly

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

So **** Judo. Omoplata to the fucking shoulder, reach up and crossface neckcrank the omoplata to finish it. Give every fucking Judoka something real to cry about. It sounds harsh but Judo left such a bad taste in my mouth everytime I hear about 'pressure on the elbow' it makes me want to Kani Basi into an inverted heel hook.

Of course I can't say anything about any of that because Yrky beat me to it, so I'll reiterate:

Originally Posted by Boyd

**** Judo.

**Sophist** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 6:39am

Um, this discussion's been had a few times over on the judoinfo.com forums. One link:

http://www.judoinfo.com/discuss/lofi...php/t5609.html

General consensus seems to be that it's legal in the same sense that ude garami is legal - everyone tacitly accepts that it attacks the elbow even when it really attacks the shoulder - but people who're unfamiliar with it sometimes quibble that it's attacking the shoulder. If Ludwig Paischer's getting away with it as per Joshua Resnick's claims, then it's probably widely accepted at high level.

And Yrkoon9 - it's not the judo rules so much, it's the fucking referees. The rules leave it up to them to determine progress on the ground, so a clueless ref really can stand you out of a pin/armlock.

**Mjelva** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 9:16am

Omoplata is far from my strongest submission, but I love going to it if I get stacked on an armbar.
I feel like such a pimp, every fucking time.

**Meager** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 4:08pm

Originally Posted by Sophist

And Yrkoon9 - it's not the judo rules so much, it's the fucking referees. The rules leave it up to them to determine progress on the ground, so a clueless ref really can stand you out of a pin/armlock.

No, it's the rules. No attacking the legs is gay (I don't like the fact that alot of BJJ tournaments are now restricting leg attacks in advanced/higher belt divisions either). No attacking the shoulder is super gay.

**fanatical** · Posted On: 5/19/2006 4:17pm

How about we agree it's both?

**Judobum** · Posted On: 5/20/2006 3:31pm

I can understand the frustration somewhat with the current state of ne-waza in judo competitions. However you know that going in for the most part. Certain refs will be better or worse for it.

You have to go by the limits of the tournament you sign up for. Judo tournament, emphasis on throwing, limited techniques in ne-waza and very limited time to apply anything in ne-waza. That's it. I had a similar frustration in competing in BJJ tournaments where you would be disqualified for throwing your opponent "too hard". How hard was too hard? In my experience anything that cause your opponents feet to leave the mat and him to land with any kind of force. I got warned like a bazillion times until I realized that wasn't what I was supposed to be doing since I wasn't in a judo match.

Yes it sucks when you can''t use potent weapons in your grappling arsenal. If you can't handle that, don't go into tournaments in other sports. Or if you do, train for those rules.

**Yrkoon9** · Posted On: 5/20/2006 7:59pm

Never heard of a BJJ tournament that disqualifies you throwing your opponent too hard. What was the name of this tournament? Cuz I plant dudes in BJJ tournies all the time.

Or are you just making this up to poise a counterpoint?

Edit: synatax was so bad that my 3rd grade English teacher ought to beat me about the head and neck with a textbook.

Editted a second time because I even fucked up the edit. It is entirely possible that being thrown too hard has caused brain damage.

Editted a THIRD time because adverbs are hard.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 5/20/2006 8:02pm

Originally Posted by Yrkoon9

Never heard of a BJJ tournament that disqualifies your opponent for throwing them too hard. What was the name of this tournament? Cuz I plant dudes in BJJ tournies all the time.

Or are you just making this up to poise a counterpoint?

I've never heard of this, either.

Judobum: You were the one that said you were on the Canadian National Judo team, right? You allude to BJJ experience in your post above Yrkoon9's, also. Just out of simple curiousity, do you train BJJ or any type of grappling besides Judo regularly?

**Judobum** · Posted On: 5/21/2006 6:35am

Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean

I've never heard of this, either.

Judobum: You were the one that said you were on the Canadian National Judo team, right? You allude to BJJ experience in your post above Yrkoon9's, also. Just out of simple curiousity, do you train BJJ or any type of grappling besides Judo regularly?

I didn't actually allude to BJJ experience but I did compete in a couple BJJ tournaments. Of course this was 14 years ago at the "world grappling championships" in the metropolis of Guelph, Ontario. It was in the very early days of BJJ/grappling in Canada so it was kind of a joke. My judo club pretty much walked in and rolled all the BJJ guys since they were a pretty new club and most of us were national level judoka. I'm sure that wouldn't happen nowadays since BJJ is much more established.

I haven't done any other type of grappling besides judo on a regular basis, though I've visited a couple grappling / BJJ clubs a few times. It's been nice to see the level develop, initially they were pretty much a joke but now they are much better and more competitive. I'm looking to do some BJJ once I can find a decent club around and get a bit more consistant on the mats than I've been over the last year.

I didn't mean to imply ALL BJJ tournaments had the "don't throw hard" rule, I was just kind of trying to make a point. When you enter a competition you're stuck abiding by the rules of that competition. If you find the rules of a particular comp too limiting, it's probably not the sport for you.