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  1. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 9:41pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Sangaku Garami (Omoplata) Stoppage

    A little background on why I am starting this thread. I was recently stopped in inner dojo shiai practice for a sangaku garami (omopolata) because it is often considered an unsafe technique during full speed practice. I had applied it full speed until the point the pressure was about to be sufficient to submit my opponent from there I was finishing the lock slowly to avoid blowing out the arm.........The shoulder wasn't at risk because the upper arm was at 90 Degrees to his body and the position should have been only applying pressure on the elbow (as per judo rules). (there was no newbies present at class, everyone was at least a 1st dan and my opponent is a 4th dan so I don't think freaking out the noobs is an excuse)

    My question is, has anyone else been stopped during a comp when applying this technique because of the risk of the submission to the shoulder? I am curious if anyone has any particular luck with this in comps or should I only utilize it as a sweep?

    BJJ stories of omopolata godlyness is welcome also............
    Last edited by MONGO; 5/18/2006 9:44pm at .
  2. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 10:15pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every omoplata I've done and had done to me has put pressure in the shoulder. Since the full action is to raise your hips and turn over onto your stomach I don't see how you could avoid it.
  3. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 10:19pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Every time I apply an omoplata when rolling and I know I've got it locked in I go really slow when transitioning from figure-4ing my legs to throwing the far one behind me and applying pressure.
  4. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 10:28pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    Every omoplata I've done and had done to me has put pressure in the shoulder. Since the full action is to raise your hips and turn over onto your stomach I don't see how you could avoid it.
    It puts pressure on the shoulder just like ude garami but the majority of the submission should applied to the elbow (per judo rules). In Judo, it is usually done with the upper arm straight to the side so there is a bit more room between the person applying the lock and the unsuspecting victim.

    Dunno, if it can't be done easily without pressure on the shoulder, that is probably why I got stopped for it. I found it in Best Judo so I have been iching to sub somone with it this year, looks like I wasted the only shot I had if its not legal in Judo comps.
  5. Aesopian is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 10:52pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only way I've ever seen the omoplata attack the elbow is if you somehow manage to get their hand stuck in your groin and your thigh on their elbow. And then you sorta scissors your legs. Which is pretty easily to escape. So basically it sounds like judo rules just make you do the omoplata really retardedly.

    As for using it as a sweep instead, here's my advice for a simple sweep described in simple detail:

    When you rotate out for the omoplata, keeping your legs triangled around their arm and keeping control of their wrist so they don't pull the arm out. Hug their thigh to your shoulder as you roll belly down away from them. They'll roll over you and you'll come up sitting on their shoulder. The roll can be pretty slow and deliberate but it is hard to resist. Once they're on their back, just turn towards their hips and slide into side control.
    Last edited by Aesopian; 5/18/2006 10:58pm at .
  6. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 11:17pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks, I'll try the sweep.

    Looks like the Omo isn't legal and it looks like the way I was doing it wasn't either (I am figuring I applied too much pressure to the shoulder and that is why it got stopped). I'll stick to the basics and not **** around and end up getting dqed in a comp.

    I did it almost exactly like the picture below but it was appearantly a no go.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by MONGO; 5/18/2006 11:23pm at .
  7. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 11:42pm

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     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you intentionally leave the back "unhooked" so the guy can flip over, you can grab the leg for a kneebar as he flips over. Probably not worth risking it, but hey, I've pulled it off once, and almost got Scrapper with it the other day.

    Edit: Oh wait, that's illegal in Judo too isn't it?
  8. MONGO is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 11:47pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Leg locks are very much illegal in Judo. Which leads judo practicioners to just rely on the basic armlocks and strangles.
  9. Jitsuman is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 12:08am


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I very rarely finish with the omoplata.

    I usually use it as a sweep, or to set up the triangle.
  10. Yrkoon9 is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 1:27am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I finish maybe 1 in 8 omoplatas.

    As a former Judoka I am deeply embarassed about the shiai rules regarding newaza. You can full force throw a guy on his head, but if an armlock even looks like your opponents shoulder might be turning than it's matte. I remember one of my last Judo competitions I had my opponent pinned, he started to escape and I turned it into a collar choke. They gave me a warning because I put my shin behind the guys head to apply pressure. A big no-no because I was manipulating the neck. I actually got a fucking lecture - ON THE MAT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE CONTEST - from the referee. I was so pissed. The guy was .5 seconds away from tapping out and he knew it. I scored a koka with a weak trip that landed me in half guard. I got my leg out and took side control ( A pin ). I went for an Ude Garami but the guy straightened his arm. So there I was pinning the guy and had him in an armlock with the fulcrum RIGHT UNDER HIS ELBOW and the referee called matte. Again we stood up and my opponent couldn't even look at me.

    I spend the last 30 seconds of the fight just walking around the mat with my arms at my side looking at the referee shaking my head in disgust. I got 2 non-combativity calls for a penalty. I won the match. I didn't even bow at the end. The other guy did and I just walked off the mat. Part of me wanted that referee to call the match on that so I could just knock the fucking **** out of him for being a prick.

    Why on earth did I write all that out?

    Because I finally realized that Judo rules fucking suck. They fucking suck so fucking bad that just writing about this makes me sick to my stomach. I am absolutely livid the way Judo newaza is frowned on by many judges and referees. Even if something is legal they are likely to stop it.

    So **** Judo. Omoplata to the fucking shoulder, reach up and crossface neckcrank the omoplata to finish it. Give every fucking Judoka something real to cry about. It sounds harsh but Judo left such a bad taste in my mouth everytime I hear about 'pressure on the elbow' it makes me want to Kani Basi into an inverted heel hook.

    BTW - one solution in shiai is to do the technique so fast, so hard, and so ballistically that the guy taps BEFORE the referee has a chance to say anything. It's hard to argue with a tap.
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