Best post ever.
Originally Posted by Kallx
You are a total Douchbag. Train more, post nevermore.
FickleFingerOfFate -08-21-2007 08:59 AM
just die already.
Plasma - 08-20-2007 11:45 PM
Best MA website ever!!!!!: http://www.dogjudo.co.uk/
Almost every senior Kobatashi Shorin Ryu Black Belt on this continent was either affiliated with or trained under Hargrove at one time or another. Most broke away for their own reasons, including inflated ego. I have been training for over twenty-five years and have met many instructors, including the'new' heads of Shorin Ryu Shorin Kan, Doug Perry and Pat Hailey, but have never met a person more knowledgeable or willing to teach than Hargrove. Whether or not he is still affiliate with Nakazato Sensei is not relavent. He should have gone independent years ago and many people told him so. You want to learn great Martial Arts go to Hargrove, thats what counts. I am Roku Dan Renshi. Contrary to above postings, most Okinawan and Japanese styles use titles for senior Black Belts.
Last edited by Oldiebear; 1/12/2008 12:14am at .
I know Frank Hargrove personally. Yes, he has been in prison at least one time that I know of. He was convicted for lying on federal documents and went away to federal prison May 2003. He was released around August/September 2004. If you go to www.bop.gov, and enter his full name, Franklin Hargrove, in the inmate locator, his name will appear. Frank Hargrove is a liar and a cheat. He was kicked out of the association for his greediness. He stole money from Nakazato but still claims to have a relationship with him. If it weren't for his need for money and women, Frank Hargrove could have established an amazing legacy. Now look where he is-old and alone.
rcytrcy01 is absolutely correct...Frank Hargrove is a liar and a cheat. After reading a recent e-mail written by him, I find it hard to believe he wrote any credible book himself. He writes and expresses himself somewhere around a second or third-grade level. Frank told me two different stories about how he was allegedly shot: in one version, Frank was shot while on a "top secret" document carrier mission at an international airport, but somehow survived and successfully carried-out his mission; in another version which was written in an old newspaper clipping from an article about him years and years ago, framed and posted on his dojo wall...Frank claims to have been shot while saving a young lady in his "hood."
Frank was sentenced to 18 months in Federal Prison on 31 March, 2003 by the United States District Court for Eastern Virginia, Norfolk Division on a jury conviction for 7 counts of bankruptcy fraud, false declarations, and false statements. His sentence was upheld by the Untited States Court of Appeals (case # 03-4334) on 5 April, 2004. Frank's prison time was followed by three years of probation. The judge in that case declared Frank's "United States Shorin-ryu Karate-Do Association" a "sham."
The point of bringing these facts to light is to expose Frank D.R. Hargrove as a convicted liar...who is a disgrace not only to himself, but to Shorin-ryu. He deserted his most recent dojo in Newport News, Virginia...leaving it "high & dry" in March of 2008. The story now is that Frank has relocated somewhere in Hawaii...so all you Hawaiians out there: hold on to your wallets and steer clear of Frank. If you do see him out there, report his whereabouts to the Child Support authorities...his son and mother would apprieciate it.
There a number of well-qualified Frank Hargrove trained karate instructors sprinkled around the globe, who are honest and honorable men...don't hold the fact that Frank trained them against them. However, like rcytrcy01 pointed-out: Frank is washed-up!
True, money issues have been Frank Hargrove's fatal flaw. However, I find that many people's personal biases have clouded their judgement of him as a karate-ka and as a person.
As far as his karate credentials, unquestionable. Ask any of his Okinawan sempai or classmates and they will state this. Also, if you go to Okinawan Karate, by Mark Bishop, it will verify that Frank Hargrove is one of Nakazato Sensei's first generation students. He was the President of the US branch of the Shorinkan, and trained virtually everyone in the U.S. shorinkan today. He is also their senior, and therefore they really should have no comment about him. Most kyoshi in America ignore him and don't mention him at all in a public forum. To all of those students in the shorinkan who are posting disparaging comments about him, if I were your sensei I would be embarrassed by your behavior. You should follow the example of your instructors, and just say nothing.
To frontsight, you need to adjust your glasses and your hearing aid. In spite of his flaws, Hargrove is extremely articulate, and is fluent in both Japanese and English. The mere fact that he graduated from a Japanese university also substaniates this. All in all, if you personally dislike him, that is understandable. But anyone who is in his presence for 5 minutes can tell that he is very intellegent and has outstanding martial arts skill. However, I will not even attempt to defend anything else other than his karate knowledge, because most of what I know is second hand knowledge and I was not in the shorinkan around the time of his conflict.
BTW, renshi is a title still recognized by shorinkan bylaws, but members no longer wear renshi belts, nor is there and acknowledgement of a renshi-kai in the US. IMHO, this is done to maintain the structural integrity of the association.
A PDF of the appellate decision is available, and the Franklin Hargrove referenced in the decision was definitely involved with the United States Shorin-Ryu Karate-Do Association. The court upheld Hargrove's conviction on various violations of 18 U.S.C. § 152(3) and 18 U.S.C. § 1623, which have to do with making various types of false declarations in a bankruptcy petition.
Originally Posted by Frontsight
On the one hand, such violations aren't necessarily evil. Even leaving a question blank in a bankruptcy petition can result in a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 152(3), as in United States v. Ellis, 50 F.3d 419 (7th Cir.). On the other hand, the appeal states that Hargrove was found guilty of significant omissions and misstatements in his petition and in statements under oath to the court. That's not too good.
I didn't find anything yet on his original conviction, but this document is not all that reassuring. However, it makes no allegations of theft. If ihatemcdojos claimed that Hargrove was found guilty of theft, this document does not support his claim.
Last edited by Cy Q. Faunce; 5/18/2008 4:57pm at .
Reason: Adding a statement about the allegation of theft
The decision indicates that Hargrove used his karate association to conceal the ownership of at least one valuable car when he declared bankruptcy.
"Hargrove incorporated the United States Shorin-Ryu Karate-do Association on May 17, 1988, as a nonstock, nonprofit corporation under the laws of Virginia. Hargrove was the initial registered agent and sole initial director. Hargrove is also listed on other documents as the corporation's president. United States Shorin-Ryu Karatepdo Association was terminated by operation of law numerous times, although Hargrove always managed to revise it my complying with the applicable Virginia statutes.
On April 25, 1998, Hargrove purchased a 1988 Jaguar, which vehicle was titled in his name on June 3, 1998. The corporate existence of United States Shorin-Ryu Karate-do Association was terminated by operation of law on September 30, 1998, and was not reinstated until June 22, 1999. In his application for reinstatement, Hargrove listed himself as the registered agent and as holding the corporate office of 'President.' (J.A. 986) At the time of its termination on September 30, 1998, Hargrove was listed as the registered agent and director, and the Flagship Way Property, where Hargrove resided at the time, was listed as the registered office address.
On February 13, 1999 only four months prior to his Chapter 7 petition, Hargrove tranferred the title of his 1988 Jaguar to the then defunct United States Shorin-Rue Karate-Do association. During his direct testimony at trial in this case, Hargrove admitted that he continued to drive the 1988 Jaguar after he transferred its title, although he said '[n]ot much because it was easy to break down.' (J.A. 622).
From the above evidence, a rational trier of fact could have found that at the time of the January 2000 Hearing, Hargrove actually owned the 1988 Jaguar, and that the transfer of title to the then defunct but later revived, United States Shorin-Ryu Karate-do Association was just a sham to protect an asset from liquidation in bankruptcy, such that he made a false declaration under oath at the January 2000 Hearing when he failed to include the 1988 Jaguar as one of the vehicles that he owned (Cf. Buckeye Union Cas. Co v. Robertson, 147 S.E.2d 94, 97 (Va. 1966) (discissing ownership of a vehicle for insurance purposes and stating that a 'title certificate [is] only prima facie evidence of ownership, and that the presumption of ownership evidenced by the certificate of title may be overcome by evidence that the true owner of the vehicle is a person other than the one in whose name the vehicle is registered'). Accordingly, we affirm Hargrove's conviction on Count Six."
Last edited by Sam Browning; 5/18/2008 8:26pm at .
Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
So we know that Hargroves did something stupid, and we know that if the car had been in that corporation to begin with, like many people are taught to do to protect assets, then Hargroves is technically less of a criminal... TECHNICALLY... and de facto less stupid in his actions. Big fucking deal, Hargroves broke the law.
I mean I am sorry I am not here to defend Hargroves reflexively but one thing I can't stand is the way people act like Hargroves is some exotic Enkidu man from the Epic of Gilgamesh. The big black guy who went to jail amidst the quiet orderly Japanese Shihan that "trusted him."
Let me talk about another part of Frank.... the truth is that many talented martial artists on the East Coast wound up at some point or another in jail.... its not such an anomolie. Many of these teachers were/are African Americans. I trained with teachers like this and they were ethical honorable teachers. Thats a fact... and down to the last of em when Frank Hargroves walked into a room to demonstrate his game, they respected him. That counts for more in my book than some bullshit charge that the guy did something stupid and wound up in the clink... who cares Sam. Its a fact but when taken out of context it is ugly and potentially misrepresents the true picture. One of my favorite teachers just did a stint for trying to take a gun on an aircraft... technically that makes him a criminal... he did a 3 year stint because of it after all, so what? Ultimately it was a stupid thing to do more than a criminal thing to do.
First I don't know Frank's race and don't see how its relevant. He declared bankruptcy and tried to hide his assets from his creditors. So this is not a "victimless crime", he got greedy and got caught. Its also a form of fraud and reflects more poorly on his character then if he got in trouble for a barfight, IMO. His actions were criminal AND stupid.
Originally Posted by Dsimon3387
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