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  1. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 7:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyd
    All glass and lava jokes notwithstanding, could someone explain to me what exactly is so fucking different about a punch thrown on the street and a punch thrown in the ring?
    Besides the glove, nothing.

    And that is the biggest flaw in the STREET vs SPORT debate. The STREET guys don't seem to get that a SPORT fighter is just as free to wreak havoc using all the tricks he wants just like the STREET guy. However if you can't beat the SPORT guy in the ring when both are on an equal playing field then how the hell do they figure they can win in the STREET when they are both are free to do what they want to each other.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  2. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 8:25pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Besides the glove, nothing.

    And that is the biggest flaw in the STREET vs SPORT debate. The STREET guys don't seem to get that a SPORT fighter is just as free to wreak havoc using all the tricks he wants just like the STREET guy. However if you can't beat the SPORT guy in the ring when both are on an equal playing field then how the hell do they figure they can win in the STREET when they are both are free to do what they want to each other.
    Somewhere a ninja is crying quietly after reading that post.
    Shut the hell up and train.
  3. Cassius is online now
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    Moderator

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 10:41pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    That forum is run in a different fashion than the rest of the ones here. Double check the description. We're still working on nailing down the particulars of things though.
    What's wrong with they way it is run now?

    Seems to be working quite well to me.

    Edited for grammar retardation.
    Last edited by Cassius; 5/18/2006 10:57pm at .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  4. jzs is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 5:03am


     Style: aikido, taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    Que? You don't think you are doing Taijiquan like it was done then? Then you are right.
    Yes, well things change to fit the needs of the times, but this applies to all martial arts.

    Last time I checked pple still get in fights and war still goes on in this modern times.
    That's true for sure, but I don't think to the same extent as was back then.

    What you say are other beneficial aspects of MA is the same for ANY long term physical, mental, or social endeavour.
    OK, that may be true, but that doesn't make it any less important.

    Fact of the matter is there are other activities that are better suited to building those other beneficial aspects but pple keep trying to at like a) MA was made for those things and b) that MA is the only place to get them.
    And there are better activities to get combat skills, like joining the armed forces, carrying a gun, and so on. If there is one thing that can help a person get all of these benefits, it is more efficient to practice that, then to practice martial arts for fighting, something else for social, something else for posture, something else for cardiovascular, something else for fun, something else for culture, etc.
  5. Otaku Waffle is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 5:50am


     Style: Kali/Jun Fan/CSW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    Somewhere a ninja is crying quietly after reading that post.
    No, I'm a screamer, actually.

    Edit: lol for telling Asia joining the armed forces is a better activity to get combat skills.
  6. Sophist is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 5:52am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man, you're still ducking Asia's point.

    Hard sparring is the historical way. Josephus writes of the Romans that, "Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles are bloody drills." The routine training of the medieval European swordsmen heavily involved sparring with wasters. When wars were fought with melee weapons, soldiers were drilled in mock melee battles; when men duelled to the death with swords, they practiced their skills in mock duels with less lethal weaponry.

    Fighting without weapons was never anyone's first choice. Wrestling and striking were diversions, contests of strength and skill to entertain crowds; a man who sought to defend himself in earnest would resort first to his knife. This is not to say that there were not also grappling methods employed as adjuncts to the use of weapons, for there were, both in European martial lore and Asian; however, striking was mostly an irrelevance to a man armed with a weapon capable of doing vastly more damage than a bare hand.

    It's not until times of peace that we see techniques getting fossilised and trapped in drills lacking feedback. Japanese koryu jujitsu went down this path during the lengthy peace of the Edo period, until Jigoro Kano revitalised it with what Thornton would term "alive" training and beat the other jujitsu schools of Japan in challenge match after challenge match. You could claim, of course, that the koryu practitioners had been defending themselves with their arts for a couple of centuries or more (with rather more documentable proof than can be found for many kung fu styles); but when their skills were tested in an environment conducive to gathering empirical evidence, they were found lacking. Recognising that Kano had stumbled on something important, a great many of them went over to judo.

    If combat effectiveness is not an important aim for you, and you're practicing purely to uphold tradition and for whatever other reasons of your own, go to it, drill as you like; while I, and I suspect many people here, may not understand your interest and think of it as slightly pointless, you're not deluding yourself. But if you are training in it to learn how to fight, then you need to recognise the major shortfalls of just going through the motions, which is what learning to fight without a real, resisting opponent is.
  7. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 7:48am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jzs
    Yes, well things change to fit the needs of the times, but this applies to all martial arts.
    Some did it way better than others.



    That's true for sure, but I don't think to the same extent as was back then.
    Its worse now. We face more violence now but our level of policing and protection has gone up as well.



    OK, that may be true, but that doesn't make it any less important.
    Yes it does. It means its less important than the acutal purpose of the activity.


    And there are better activities to get combat skills, like joining the armed forces, carrying a gun, and so on. If there is one thing that can help a person get all of these benefits, it is more efficient to practice that, then to practice martial arts for fighting, something else for social, something else for posture, something else for cardiovascular, something else for fun, something else for culture, etc.
    You really don't get it do you. Martial means pretaining to war/combat. Art means skill. So joinng the armed forces and a gun are MARITAL you are LEARNING MARTIAL ARTS.

    Also pple who us MA for culture tend to screw things up they instead of learning the real culture they only learn some romanticized fantasy culture. Especially with pple in CMA and Aikido. If you really want to learn the culture, take a class, or do what I did and live or visit several places.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  8. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 7:53am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbanzo Bean
    What's wrong with they way it is run now?

    Seems to be working quite well to me.

    Edited for grammar retardation.
    You misunderstand what I mean when I say "nailing it down".

    By "it" I mean Hannibal and by "down" I mean, to an interstate highway with an industrial rivet driver just before rush hour.
  9. jzs is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 4:02pm


     Style: aikido, taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyd
    All glass and lava jokes notwithstanding, could someone explain to me what exactly is so fucking different about a punch thrown on the street and a punch thrown in the ring?
    In a sport situation you typically have wrapped wrists to protect breaking, and a gloved hand to prevent breaking. Other than that, not much of anything. Throw a punch here, there, on the moon, and it will be physically the same, of course. I'm not sure I'm saying that a punch here is different from a punch there.

    A small joint manipulation in UFC is the same as on the street. Wait, no it isn't, because they aren't allowed in the UFC, same for many other techniques. ;)

    What is different from here to there is the situation of course, something which people tend to ignore because they only focus on the impressive and important high level of physical contact allowed.
  10. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2006 4:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jzs
    A small joint manipulation in UFC is the same as on the street. Wait, no it isn't, because they aren't allowed in the UFC, same for many other techniques. ;)

    What is different from here to there is the situation of course, something which people tend to ignore because they only focus on the impressive and important high level of physical contact allowed.
    In contrast to how punches work both in the ring and on the street, small joint manipulation only works if you know BJJ.
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