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  1. jzs is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2006 11:31pm


     Style: aikido, taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a nobody and anybody could beat me up with one pinky (I practice t'ai chi for health after all, haha), but I'll call it like I see it from what I've read about the martial arts:

    He seems to be repeating a philosophical concept from a very talented but short lived martial artist named Bruce Lee, who I believe had more movie fights than real life fights. This misses the mark considerably IMNSHO, considering that the "dead" martial arts have been very effective for many, many years (people couldn't fight effectively pre-UFC huh???) for fighting as well as non-martial aspects such as health, exercise, forging the spirit, learning culture, confidence, fun, social outlet, and etc. Many of these practicioners aren't interested in training for sport events and winning fake gold belts, much like MMA people aren't interested in participating in t'ai chi sensing hands tournaments.

    The fact that MMA is a combination of mainly TMAs (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Styles) escapes some people, and they believe such combining is new and improved way of doing martial arts. They were, of course, beat to the punch by hundreds and hundreds of years.

    I conjecture that if one were to point out a 'dead' thing in BJJ, JKD, etc., I imagine he'd call it something like a 'conditioning exercise', or say the the belts are 'for acheivement', etc. anything to explain the 'dead' away in what he practices.

    One can appeal to early UFC all they'd like, but MMA events seem to actually be (d)evolving into mainly sporting events with weight classes, knowing your opponent in advance, dozens of rules, many which limit striking, limit holds, and if they weren't there would make many holds moot, and a WWE-like atmosphere that comes off as an insecure display of aggression marketed primarily towards male teenagers. I attempt to explain my beliefs on the relationship between the contact allowed and the situation at http://www.statisticool.com/fights.htm to show why appealing to UFC-ish events is missing the point somewhat.

    (deflates own head, steps off soap box)

    Are the techniques good that he teaches and can one be trained there to be a great fighter and would the gym be recommended? All sources point to YES!!!. I just don't think it is anything new, and don't think it makes other martial arts 'dead' in the slightest.
  2. Poop Loops is offline
    Poop Loops's Avatar

    OOOOOOOOOOAAARRGGHH RLY?

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2006 11:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: In Transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jzs
    I'm a nobody and anybody could beat me up with one pinky (I practice t'ai chi for health after all, haha), but I'll call it like I see it from what I've read about the martial arts:
    Instead of reading, how about DOING?

    He seems to be repeating a philosophical concept from a very talented but short lived martial artist named Bruce Lee
    He never claimed to have invented this. He even states boxers and wrestlers do this without thinking about it because it makes so much sense. News flash, Bruce Lee didn't invent it, either.

    who I believe had more movie fights than real life fights.
    Probably. Maybe people should stop worshipping him, then?

    This misses the mark considerably IMNSHO, considering that the "dead" martial arts have been very effective for many, many years (people couldn't fight effectively pre-UFC huh???) for fighting as well as non-martial aspects such as health, exercise, forging the spirit, learning culture, confidence, fun, social outlet, and etc. Many of these practicioners aren't interested in training for sport events and winning fake gold belts, much like MMA people aren't interested in participating in t'ai chi sensing hands tournaments.
    Bullshit. "Old School" martial arts used sparring EXTENSIVELY. Not only that, but they CHALLENGED each other to see who's better. After all, teaching people martial arts was how they made money. Rivals were bad. When the war periods ended, people just didn't see a reason to learn to fight anymore. There really is no reason to know how to fight. It's just fun. Anyway, it went hardcore sparring --> dead patterns --> starting to see more sparring now.

    The fact that MMA is a combination of mainly TMAs (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Styles) escapes some people, and they believe such combining is new and improved way of doing martial arts. They were, of course, beat to the punch by hundreds and hundreds of years.
    Are you deaf or stupid? He said that it doesn't matter what style you do, it's HOW you do it. The only real difference between Shotokan Karate and Kyokushin Karate is that KK actually spars, whereas SK just stands in a line and screams. Trying to use your moves against someone who is trying to use his against you is how you really learn how to fight. Not standing in a line and punching in the air. That is the whole point.

    I conjecture that if one were to point out a 'dead' thing in BJJ, JKD, etc., I imagine he'd call it something like a 'conditioning exercise', or say the the belts are 'for acheivement', etc. anything to explain the 'dead' away in what he practices.
    Point out a "dead" thing in BJJ, then. What? Showing how to do an arm bar, or shrimping exercises that are meant to be a warm up anyway? What else you got?

    One can appeal to early UFC all they'd like, but MMA events seem to actually be (d)evolving into mainly sporting events with weight classes, knowing your opponent in advance, dozens of rules, many which limit striking, limit holds, and if they weren't there would make many holds moot,
    Which holds would be moot?

    and a WWE-like atmosphere that comes off as an insecure display of aggression marketed primarily towards male teenagers.
    UFC is American. America is ego-driven and insercure. Get used to it. Watch some Pride. Different rules, too.

    I attempt to explain my beliefs on the relationship between the contact allowed and the situation at http://www.statisticool.com/fights.htm to show why appealing to UFC-ish events is missing the point somewhat.

    (deflates own head, steps off soap box)
    Please, shut the **** up about realism in MMA unless you've actually done it. I've done real sparring. There is nothing fake about it. You get punched, you get thrown, you hit the ground, and you get hurt. The only difference is that you probably won't die. But that's not what's running through your mind, anyway. You're worried about not losing your teeth.

    Are the techniques good that he teaches and can one be trained there to be a great fighter and would the gym be recommended? All sources point to YES!!!. I just don't think it is anything new, and don't think it makes other martial arts 'dead' in the slightest.
    Then you have completely missed the point. Go do a REAL martial art and then come back here.
  3. jzs is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 5:03am


     Style: aikido, taijiquan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Phalange
    Instead of reading, how about DOING?
    ...
    Please, shut the **** up about realism in MMA unless you've actually done it. I've done real sparring.
    ...
    Go do a REAL martial art and then come back here.
    :llorar:
    Last edited by Shuma-Gorath; 5/18/2006 7:36am at .
  4. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 5:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jzs
    I'm sure you've done "real sparring" (what you really mean to say is you've done a full contact sport), and many people, including me, have applied their martial art in actual real life self defense situations, so they, and I, could care less about how devestatingly awesome the contact is in your sparring.
    Colour me unimpressed by this arguement. I won fights when the only martial art I studied was fencing, does this validate the foil as a training tool for teh str33t? No, I won (generally) because of agression, willingness to escalate and because the vast majority of people cannot fight for ****. A BJJ blue belt who I've got 20 pounds on, however, handles me as if I were a new born baby.

    The real fighters I've met would no more brag about beating up drunks than Linford Christie would recount his victory over an asthmatic granny. It's their victories over other trained fighters under fair conditions that demonstrate their skill, not their closing time sucker punches.
  5. Phrost is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 7:43am

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Non technique discussion in technique forum BEGONE!
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 9:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jzs
    I'm a nobody and anybody could beat me up with one pinky (I practice t'ai chi for health after all, haha), but I'll call it like I see it from what I've read about the martial arts:

    He seems to be repeating a philosophical concept from a very talented but short lived martial artist named Bruce Lee, who I believe had more movie fights than real life fights. This misses the mark considerably IMNSHO, considering that the "dead" martial arts have been very effective for many, many years (people couldn't fight effectively pre-UFC huh???) for fighting as well as non-martial aspects such as health, exercise, forging the spirit, learning culture, confidence, fun, social outlet, and etc. Many of these practicioners aren't interested in training for sport events and winning fake gold belts, much like MMA people aren't interested in participating in t'ai chi sensing hands tournaments.

    The fact that MMA is a combination of mainly TMAs (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=LearnUFC.Styles) escapes some people, and they believe such combining is new and improved way of doing martial arts. They were, of course, beat to the punch by hundreds and hundreds of years.

    I conjecture that if one were to point out a 'dead' thing in BJJ, JKD, etc., I imagine he'd call it something like a 'conditioning exercise', or say the the belts are 'for acheivement', etc. anything to explain the 'dead' away in what he practices.

    One can appeal to early UFC all they'd like, but MMA events seem to actually be (d)evolving into mainly sporting events with weight classes, knowing your opponent in advance, dozens of rules, many which limit striking, limit holds, and if they weren't there would make many holds moot, and a WWE-like atmosphere that comes off as an insecure display of aggression marketed primarily towards male teenagers. I attempt to explain my beliefs on the relationship between the contact allowed and the situation at http://www.statisticool.com/fights.htm to show why appealing to UFC-ish events is missing the point somewhat.

    (deflates own head, steps off soap box)

    Are the techniques good that he teaches and can one be trained there to be a great fighter and would the gym be recommended? All sources point to YES!!!. I just don't think it is anything new, and don't think it makes other martial arts 'dead' in the slightest.
    The saddest part is you probably realize how stupid this post is.:sad1:

    Arts have become DEAD. If you think you're doing Taijiquan like it was during the warring eras of China then you are WRONG. And that really is the problem. Pple THINK they are practicising like warriors of yore but they are far form it. Pple then didn't practice MA fo culture, social outlet and other BS they did it for a very simple reson, TO FIGHT. Thats the part that has been removed. The MARITAL has been taken out of many of the socalled Traditional Martial Arts. Out of the numerous manuals they don't talk about meaningless issues and focus on what one needs to be a MArtist. The rest of the baggage was added when it was safer to label yourself a MArtist, as opposed to before when having that label meant you could be challenged often.

    So it acutally helps to learn and research things before posting.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
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  7. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 9:45am

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    The saddest part is you probably realize how stupid this post is.:sad1:
    well of course he does ... look he is crying his little peepers out .




    Quote Originally Posted by jzs
    :llorar:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 9:47am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LORD ASIA
    The saddest part is you probably realize how stupid this post is.:sad1:

    Arts have become DEAD. If you think you're doing Taijiquan like it was during the warring eras of China then you are WRONG. And that really is the problem. Pple THINK they are practicising like warriors of yore but they are far form it. Pple then didn't practice MA fo culture, social outlet and other BS they did it for a very simple reson, TO FIGHT. Thats the part that has been removed. The MARITAL has been taken out of many of the socalled Traditional Martial Arts. Out of the numerous manuals they don't talk about meaningless issues and focus on what one needs to be a MArtist. The rest of the baggage was added when it was safer to label yourself a MArtist, as opposed to before when having that label meant you could be challenged often.

    So it acutally helps to learn and research things before posting.



    What he said^^. Plus, you know this topic is started by every so called Internal Martial Artist. Our newest member peng basically tried to say the same thing.

    Original TMA=MMA/BJJ
    Modern TMA=philosophy and non-aggresion.
  9. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 9:59am

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    is the first post missing a paragraph, explaining what the **** is going on here?
  10. P A Smith is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/18/2006 10:02am


     Style: Shidokan Karate

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bruce Lee borrowed much of his philosophy from Krishnamurti for what it's worth.
    And he had feck all to do with MA.

    I've said this on other forums...
    If what Matt Thornton says already applies to what you do then he is not talking to you. If however what he says rings true or sheds light on your training then read up some more and try it out.

    He NEVER, ever says that what he tries to get across is new.

    Just because you only want...

    "health, exercise, forging the spirit, learning culture, confidence, fun, social outlet, and etc"

    ...from doing a martial art doesn't mean that you then HAVE to do rubbish. You can still train "alive", get all those things and build up some skills in the process.
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