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  1. Lujke is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2007 11:59am


     Style: Systema & BJJ noob,x BBT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, have a look at this article for more advice on choosing a school for your kid. It's a bit long, but has good information and after all, this is an important decision.

    The article may also give you a bit more insight into what this site is about as a bonus.
  2. akidomom is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/05/2007 1:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: sanjuriu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fair enough. I will look at the article. Thank you for the last two posts they are informative and helpful. Thank you. And yes I do have a son who is somewhat interested but, not to the extint of my daughter.
  3. ChimeriX is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/08/2007 10:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    so maybe



    sorry to bring up a dead thread, but I found this book in a bookstore recently. Fiction about Otori clan I think, I didn't really read much into it. However, part of this samurai's banner shows Sanjuriu's kanji. Interesting if nothing else.

    As far as my opinion.. Sanjuriu is overall a good system. In the aikijutsu classes, they teach very similar to a judo school. You learn how to move pretty well as well as how to control an opponent if they put a hand on you or move for you. However, the weakness of this system is in the preemptive strike area. If you are about to get your head bashed in, I think its fair to say you want to destroy your opponent as quickly as possible instead of waiting for them to get near you with whatever weapon they may have. Fighting isn't fair, and attackers arn't always stupid. This system has a major weakness I think on the ground. I haven't seen much training if you do get taken to the ground. Obviously it trains to stay away from ground fighting as you want to stay away from that kind of weak position(being tangled and exposed to other attackers) however there isn't a whole lot taught once you get there. Though there is some basic training on the ground. The karate is pretty good. The guards are ok, the kicks are pretty strong. The self defense aspects are definitely there. But once again, probably only going to work against untrained attackers or tai-kwon-do'ers (heh sorry)

    Coming from a student of Sanjuriu for several years and someone who has met the 'grand master'. I must say it is a good system if you find the right instructor. The grand master is a grand badass if a little crazy. He says he learned from someone he saved in vietnam I believe. I can't back up any claims. All I can say is Sanjuriu isn't a bad place to start. You will increase a lot of good skills, however I would suggest training in other systems as well if you really want to learn good self defense and feel confident in yourself.

    If you train in martial arts and have seen different types, you probably know almost all systems have tons of the same material presented in different ways. I don't think it much matters where you learn it, as long as you have a good contextual setting and you arn't just learning to dance.

    Feel free to flame my opinion.
  4. El Neko is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/09/2007 5:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX


    sorry to bring up a dead thread, but I found this book in a bookstore recently. Fiction about Otori clan I think, I didn't really read much into it. However, part of this samurai's banner shows Sanjuriu's kanji. Interesting if nothing else.
    and here we fucking go.
    From the amazon description of the book

    Australian writer Gillian Rubinstein, writing as Hearn, concludes her bestselling Otori fantasy epic (Across the Nightingale Floor, etc.) with another magical tale of life and death in feudal Japan.
    "Fantasy" being the key word here

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    As far as my opinion.. Sanjuriu is overall a good system. In the aikijutsu classes, they teach very similar to a judo school. You learn how to move pretty well as well as how to control an opponent if they put a hand on you or move for you. However, the weakness of this system is in the preemptive strike area. If you are about to get your head bashed in, I think its fair to say you want to destroy your opponent as quickly as possible instead of waiting for them to get near you with whatever weapon they may have. Fighting isn't fair, and attackers arn't always stupid. This system has a major weakness I think on the ground. I haven't seen much training if you do get taken to the ground. Obviously it trains to stay away from ground fighting as you want to stay away from that kind of weak position(being tangled and exposed to other attackers) however there isn't a whole lot taught once you get there. Though there is some basic training on the ground...
    Do you have previous Judo experience? if not, this makes your opinion less than credible, however, I'm willing to give you a little break, because it seems that you're showing some objectivity.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    The karate is pretty good. The guards are ok, the kicks are pretty strong. The self defense aspects are definitely there. But once again, probably only going to work against untrained attackers or tai-kwon-do'ers (heh sorry)
    Kicks are pretty good comparing to what?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Coming from a student of Sanjuriu for several years and someone who has met the 'grand master'. I must say it is a good system if you find the right instructor. The grand master is a grand badass if a little crazy. He says he learned from someone he saved in vietnam I believe. I can't back up any claims. All I can say is Sanjuriu isn't a bad place to start. You will increase a lot of good skills, however I would suggest training in other systems as well if you really want to learn good self defense and feel confident in yourself.
    Ok, you can understand how we have trouble believing anything Sanjuriu stands for when there's so many different background stories.

    Do you have video of this art working against non-compliant opponents?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    If you train in martial arts and have seen different types, you probably know almost all systems have tons of the same material presented in different ways. I don't think it much matters where you learn it, as long as you have a good contextual setting and you arn't just learning to dance.
    Karate has shoulder throws, kung fu has shoulder throws, filipino martial arts have shoulder throws, however I'm gonna go with judo when choosing to learn a good shoulder throw, why settle for good enough when you could learn quality?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Feel free to flame my opinion.
    I'll take this into account next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!
  5. ChimeriX is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/09/2007 9:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    and here we fucking go.
    From the amazon description of the book



    "Fantasy" being the key word here
    Indeed, I just found this interesting that the kanji would be represented on some random picture on some fantasy book.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Do you have previous Judo experience? if not, this makes your opinion less than credible, however, I'm willing to give you a little break, because it seems that you're showing some objectivity.
    I haven't had the honor of finding and training with other judo schools. I have however watched video demonstrations and spoken with others who have claimed to train in judo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Kicks are pretty good comparing to what?
    Comparing to lifting the heel and twisting and doing aerial aesthetic stuff like you see on tv. The kicks come from a decent position and you don't fly in the air or fling yourself at somebody.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Ok, you can understand how we have trouble believing anything Sanjuriu stands for when there's so many different background stories.

    Do you have video of this art working against non-compliant opponents?
    I have no such video as I'm not a part of this dojo any longer nor was I ever a major player in the 'sanjuriu' scene ;).

    I can say I have had to utilize self defense twice in the past several years. Only twice. Those two times the 'fight' if thats what you want to call it was over in about three seconds after I dodged a couple blows and actually both times ended with a knee to their abdomen, leaving them gasping and me escaping. Neither were trained in MA I don't imagine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Karate has shoulder throws, kung fu has shoulder throws, filipino martial arts have shoulder throws, however I'm gonna go with judo when choosing to learn a good shoulder throw,
    Indeed, like I said about every system I've seen from Chineese, to Japanese to Philipino to Krav Maga to American Bullshit to BJJ to Muay Thai have lots in common.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    why settle for good enough when you could learn quality?
    Because sometimes quality isn't available. For instance Knoxville TN where I lived for several years and trained in Sanjuriu. I traveled to every dojo I could find and spent at least a day with them. I couldn't find anything of higher caliber.

    Also, I'm in Prescott, AZ now. If you know of ANYTHING decent in my area, give me a shout please. I would love to train somewhere decent. I've seen Wing Chun, Kenpo, and Tai kwon do here so far none of which im thrilled about. I found a little place called Jen Do Tao American Combato that I just started taking some lessons with. They have at least some practical applications. Its a made up art in the past 50 years or so tho.

    So the original intent of my post of that pic was just to show that I thought it was interesting that the banner of the samurai in the picture has their kanji. I'm not saying I'm better than you, in fact I would bet you probably have superior training.

    btw, sweet avatar. Nightcrawler was the ****.
  6. El Neko is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2007 10:42am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Indeed, I just found this interesting that the kanji would be represented on some random picture on some fantasy book. .


    Fair enough, I’ll maintain my attitude though

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    I haven't had the honor of finding and training with other judo schools. I have however watched video demonstrations and spoken with others who have claimed to train in judo. .


    Ok, then you see why I might have my doubts about this claim (as long as we’re clear)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Comparing to lifting the heel and twisting and doing aerial aesthetic stuff like you see on tv. The kicks come from a decent position and you don't fly in the air or fling yourself at somebody.


    Fair enough, this is however not a golden star on the sanjuriu banner, Muay Thai has really good kicks, and this is not up for debate. See my point?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    I have no such video as I'm not a part of this dojo any longer nor was I ever a major player in the 'sanjuriu' scene ;).


    Ok, I hope you can see how this seems mighty convenient from my point of view, but like I said, I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    I can say I have had to utilize self defense twice in the past several years. Only twice. Those two times the 'fight' if thats what you want to call it was over in about three seconds after I dodged a couple blows and actually both times ended with a knee to their abdomen, leaving them gasping and me escaping. Neither were trained in MA I don't imagine.


    In what context did this “fights” happened? (were you being robbed, assaulted for no reason, or did you call him a ***** and his ego wasn’t going to take it sitting?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Indeed, like I said about every system I've seen from Chineese, to Japanese to Philipino to Krav Maga to American Bullshit to BJJ to Muay Thai have lots in common.


    Because one art has a punch similar or the same as the other, doesn’t mean that they all can perform it, set it up, or aplly it the same way, as a grappler, I might be able to perform a kick to the head, but I’m pretty sure a striker is gonna perform it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Because sometimes quality isn't available. For instance Knoxville TN where I lived for several years and trained in Sanjuriu. I traveled to every dojo I could find and spent at least a day with them. I couldn't find anything of higher caliber.


    I’m willing to bet that there might be a wrestling club (collegial or High school) in your area

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Also, I'm in Prescott, AZ now. If you know of ANYTHING decent in my area, give me a shout please. I would love to train somewhere decent. I've seen Wing Chun, Kenpo, and Tai kwon do here so far none of which im thrilled about. I found a little place called Jen Do Tao American Combato that I just started taking some lessons with. They have at least some practical applications. Its a made up art in the past 50 years or so tho.


    Man, I’m willing to bet there is at least one MMA gym or team in your area, why not try that?

    Also, here’s a tool to check schools in your area click here I only see Tucson and Phoenix, but at least is a start

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    So the original intent of my post of that pic was just to show that I thought it was interesting that the banner of the samurai in the picture has their kanji. I'm not saying I'm better than you, in fact I would bet you probably have superior training.


    Man, my post wasn’t intended to be a chest pounding match bro, if it came across that way, it wasn’t my intention, however if you read the whole threat you can understand my skepticism

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    btw, sweet avatar. Nightcrawler was the ****.


    That is actually Shinya Aoki (pride lightweight fighter) after some photoshop (not done by me)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!
  7. ChimeriX is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2007 12:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687

    Fair enough, I’ll maintain my attitude though

    Ok



    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Ok, then you see why I might have my doubts about this claim (as long as we’re clear)

    I have my doubts too man. Thats why I wouldn't want to train in one area all my life. Even the guy that teaches sanjuriu has mixed training from tons of systems(however he doesn't incorporate these into his training unfortunately) Although he does have an MMA intern that teaches and sometimes he participates.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Fair enough, this is however not a golden star on the sanjuriu banner, Muay Thai has really good kicks, and this is not up for debate. See my point?

    Yes. and i'm not going to disagree or debate since I don't have a whole lot to compare to in my OWN training.



    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    In what context did this “fights” happened? (were you being robbed, assaulted for no reason, or did you call him a ***** and his ego wasn’t going to take it sitting?)

    The first was in high school with some loser at lunch ha. He just decided he didn't like me I guess. I still don't know why he attacked me. The second was on the street. The guy was probably 18-20ish and I had insulted his female friend at some point I think. I was leaning on a wall, he came up all tough like and threw an elbow at my head. I ducked and slammed my knee into his chest and he fell over trying to get his breath. I told 'em this is over, and I walked to my car and drove away.
    No I wasn't fighting for my life. I wasn't being mugged. I didn't call anyone a *****. I guess I should of not called a girl a name a long time before and forgotten about it I guess. She remembered. heh.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Because one art has a punch similar or the same as the other, doesn’t mean that they all can perform it, set it up, or aplly it the same way, as a grappler, I might be able to perform a kick to the head, but I’m pretty sure a striker is gonna perform it better.

    I'm not disagreeing there. I think my original point was everyone has the same ****, but not everyone does it to the same quality. Sorry if I got led off on a tangent and made that unclear.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Man, I’m willing to bet there is at least one MMA gym or team in your area, why not try that?

    I'm looking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Also, here’s a tool to check schools in your area click here I only see Tucson and Phoenix, but at least is a start

    Thanks, i'll check it out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Man, my post wasn’t intended to be a chest pounding match bro, if it came across that way, it wasn’t my intention, however if you read the whole threat you can understand my skepticism

    I haven't read all 30 pages. I read the first several with slight amusment. Then I got bored and skipped to the end. Bad habit.. sorry.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    That is actually Shinya Aoki (pride lightweight fighter) after some photoshop (not done by me)
    Cool, nightcrawler would have been a champ in the ring tho.


    Also someone posted early in the begining trying to translate San Ju Riu into chinese. I think Sanjuriu is the Japanese spelling. It is supposed to mean Three Path Art or Three Level School depending on translation/definition. The lesser known chinese is Sanzyuryu if i'm not mistaken. They discontinued that name shortly after I started.

    The story as I know it of its history was this. The art that led to and begot Sanjuriu was some Chinese emperors bodyguards. It then was picked up by the Samurai. The kanji probably isn't legible because it's some old form of chinese from the original scrolls or something. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not going to argue this. This is strictly hearsay from instructors along the way. I've never been shown proof and I am not backing this claim in any way. Feel free to give me a real history lesson as I never really received one from my instructors. I was told Sanjuriu and Jujutsu have a lot of the same beginings and that Sanjuriu was predominant in Japan before WWII. As I know it, there are actually two international schools with the name Sanjuriu that split because one wanted the Commercial aspect and one wanted to keep to the old standards.

    Thats all I know. I don't know if i'm repeating or contradicting some other sanjuriu student's own post.

    Also, if any Sanjuriu Knoxville folk are reading this, you probably know who I am and feel free to give me a call(Caleb has my # somewhere I'm sure) to give me a piece of your mind.

    edit:
    I just read the past 10 pages or so and I see pretty much everything has been covered. So to prevent argument let me say this:
    I trained in Sanjuriu for just a bit longer than David has(SocraticBass). Dave is awesome.
    He has probably attended class more regularly than me of late. The first few years of my training I was there almost everyday training. However, the past few I would span months of not going due to life being complicated. I achieved my black belt. I never received my menkyo papers. If I had, I would probably scan them. I don't see any problem in it. I don't think anyone would be able to steal anything from characters. I have been largely ignored by head instructor probably because of my lack of regular attending. I'm not as in love with my art as the others I guess, as I was constantly looking for other arts to cross train in. Unfortunately I never stumbled upon the BJJ in knoxville. If I had I would have tried it out.
    Also, in regard to Reale. I have attended two Sanjuriu camps in Idaho. As well as a seminar where he visited Knoxville. I had dinner with the guy. He is amazing although I don't know where he learned his stuff. I know he used me for his attacker many times and I can tell you resistance or not this guy knows his ****.
    As far as the colorado guy goes he is a nice guy. I have trained with him before. The reason he moves the way he does and looks like he does is due to him breaking his back from falling off a ladder. I'm amazed he was able to revive enough to keep doing what he loves.

    In short, I like Sanjuriu, however I think it would be ill advised to ONLY train it. I firmly believe cross training is where the money is at if you really want to be prepared for every situation. Whether it be some 300lb mugger or a ninja kick to the face. ;)
    Last edited by ChimeriX; 9/10/2007 2:19pm at .
  8. El Neko is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2007 2:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Ok[/color]Also someone posted early in the begining trying to translate San Ju Riu into chinese. I think Sanjuriu is the Japanese spelling. It is supposed to mean Three Path Art or Three Level School depending on translation/definition. The lesser known chinese is Sanzyuryu if i'm not mistaken. They discontinued that name shortly after I started.
    I believe the person making the translation was trying to prove that you couldn use the kanjis describe by the website to write "Three Path Art or Three Level School", not too sure, that was a while ago, I'll double check and manke sure

    Quote Originally Posted by ChimeriX
    Ok[/color]The story as I know it of its history was this. The art that led to and begot Sanjuriu was some Chinese emperors bodyguards. It then was picked up by the Samurai. The kanji probably isn't legible because it's some old form of chinese from the original scrolls or something. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not going to argue this. This is strictly hearsay from instructors along the way. I've never been shown proof and I am not backing this claim in any way. Feel free to give me a real history lesson as I never really received one from my instructors. I was told Sanjuriu and Jujutsu have a lot of the same beginings and that Sanjuriu was predominant in Japan before WWII. As I know it, there are actually two international schools with the name Sanjuriu that split because one wanted the Commercial aspect and one wanted to keep to the old standards..
    Ok, there's a catalog of acceptable Koryū(old schools) practiced by martial artists. These various schools were chronicled by Japanese writers, who used the Meiji Restoration as a cutoff for Gendai Budō(new schools) and koryū martial training, it's called Bugei Ryuha Daijiten.

    I'm willing to bet that Sanjuriu is not included in that catalog, therefore making it a gendai budo style (and even that is iffy)
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!
  9. ChimeriX is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/10/2007 2:20pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    I believe the person making the translation was trying to prove that you couldn use the kanjis describe by the website to write "Three Path Art or Three Level School", not too sure, that was a while ago, I'll double check and manke sure



    Ok, there's a catalog of acceptable Koryū(old schools) practiced by martial artists. These various schools were chronicled by Japanese writers, who used the Meiji Restoration as a cutoff for Gendai Budō(new schools) and koryū martial training, it's called Bugei Ryuha Daijiten.

    I'm willing to bet that Sanjuriu is not included in that catalog, therefore making it a gendai budo style (and even that is iffy)
    sweet, thanks. I'll definitely look into that.
    Also, i reread some posts and made an edit at the bottom of my last post regarding that.
    Last edited by ChimeriX; 9/10/2007 7:32pm at .
  10. El Neko is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/10/2007 10:08pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no problem man, I actually like your attitude, you have the experience and also happen to not be close minded.

    Hope you have luck finding a nice school over there
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!

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