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  1. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 11:12am


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    Something tells me that you have no faith on your documents, especially if it's on full display in your office.
    I'm not going to say much about the rest of your post, I'll take the criticism and get back to training, but I was curious what you were implying here. I guess you think it should be on display in the dojo? Or are you saying it should be locked away in cabinet someplace? I keep it in my office, because I am not the sensei of our dojo and it would arrogant of me to ask if I can frame it there. I'm not afraid to keep it in my office, because, its my office and I control who comes in and goes out.

    Again, I'm missing your point I guess.
  2. Shamash is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 11:26am


     Style: ex-Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass
    I'd say his philosophy for avoidng competitions is similar to our own, although again, no one is forbidden from competing. I certainly would never say that Kokondo students are afraid to compete, but I don't know one personally, so that would be every bit as much of an assumption as you are making. I'm betting that Reale and Arel have the same philosophy with regard to competing however.

    I think I should have explained things a little better. From what wikipedia says, Paul Arel absolutely forbids any competition of any kind as well as forbiding his students from training in any other martial art. That seems to be a much harsher stance than the one your school takes. Its been my experience that when teachers forbid competition or cross training, it is usually because they don't want their students to see how inferior their training is when compared to other styles and schools. Paul Arel probably doesn't have any confidence in his own teaching ability and wants to prevent students from being exposed to better schools. Also competition and/or sparring is generally when you get a more realistic idea of how skilled you actually are. I mean if one of Paul Arel's black belts entered a tournament and got his ass handed to him, he might start to question the usefullness of his training. It either that or Paul Arel is so deluded and naive that he honestly believes the nonsense himself.

    Btw, does your school forbid cross training? Oh, and thank you for posting the info on Paul and Shepard. Do you know the full name of the Sudo fellow?
  3. Locu5 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 11:32am

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     Style: Alliance BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass
    We don't, or at least haven't typically as far as a school driven push to enter tourneys. I am not involved with CAGE, so I can't speak to it. But we've had students enter.
    So your school doesn't really actively compete in striking or grappling tournaments, but a few of your guys have done some amateur MMA, then? How do they do (records)?

    SNIP

    With an adult, I'm likely to give full resistance to a student that should be able to adjust on the fly. Again, that varies and depends on the student's aptitude. But it is a given that their technique will never get better if you refuse to constantly up the level of resistance and countering.

    SNIP
    I understand a lot of schools ramp up sparring/randori (though I disagree with this method, it may just be a matter of different semantics or paradigm). So by what belt do students regularly participate in fully resistant randori?

    Also, how do your amateur MMA fighters train differently for upcoming fights?
  4. kiaiki is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 12:00pm


     Style: Aikido Ceteris Paribus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SocraticBass

    I'm not sad or bitter or obsessed with proving you are taught by a McDojo. LOL at the thought .

    I am, however, annoyed that claims for Sanjuriu discussed here on Bullshido lack supporting factual evidence - because some poor dudes will pay good money for tuition and may be being duped into supporting a McDojo.

    I am also sorry for you personally, as it cannot be easy to come to this forum to defend what must now look like a pretty questionable MA, even to you. It must also make you feel annoyed at us for exposing it, and maybe annoyed at yourself for investing so much time in Sanjuriu.

    But somebody has to ask the questions when nobody in your art has provided a single fact about their JMA knowledge or qualification in spite of touting 'Shihans' and 'menkyo' which it seems they may be awarding to themselves!

    That's like a red rag to a bull to a TMA saddo like me, I'm afraid. My concern is for anyone drawn into the organisation who receives either poor MA instruction or is not getting what they had a right to receive, if they believe the hype and swallow the Japanese facade.

    There's a good reason why all dates and names may be kept vague - a specific claim of a lineage or a qualification would leave them open to prosecution if it proved not to be true, and had formed the basis on which students chose them and paid them as instructors. In other words, it would be fraudulent if true.

    I'm not saying this would definitely apply to Sanjuriu, But here's a 'hypothetical' outcome:

    Here in the UK it would be very easy to pin it down. 'Shihan' status is granted, it is not for someone suddenly to decide that they are one. So if money is taken for tuition as a business transaction between purchaser and provider, and the head of the organisation claims a status he does not have, then he would be open to prosecution under the Trades Descriptions Act.

    If he fraudulently claims to have that qualification from a specific organisation (Jujitsu Ryu for example) then he is also guilty of 'passing off' . If you teach under him and know his qualifications are in doubt, you may also get drawn into that prosecution.

    Should the case be proven, an individual student would then have a free run at prosecution under our fraud legislation - that's a lot of people reclaiming a lot of fees.

    If I were an instructor in such circumstances I would get out - fast - and find a genuine JMA to learn.
    Last edited by kiaiki; 7/10/2007 12:17pm at .
  5. El Neko is offline
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    "Yes Neko, please keep telling me more about your manly collection of Star Wars audiobooks"

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 12:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass
    I'm not going to say much about the rest of your post, I'll take the criticism and get back to training, but I was curious what you were implying here. I guess you think it should be on display in the dojo? Or are you saying it should be locked away in cabinet someplace? I keep it in my office, because I am not the sensei of our dojo and it would arrogant of me to ask if I can frame it there. I'm not afraid to keep it in my office, because, its my office and I control who comes in and goes out.

    Again, I'm missing your point I guess.
    I apologize, thatís not what I was trying to say at all, My point (if poorly expressed) was that the document is already on display on a place where the chances of somebody with at least a minimum knowledge on Japanese, or martial arts, is lower, but when propose to display it in here, where people can go ahead and give you translations etc. you become reluctant to show what you so proudly display in your office, it's weird to say the least.

    Also, I never though I would ever say something like this, but you would be better serve and should go and practice Aikido or any other "traditional" japanese martial art.
    Last edited by El Neko; 7/10/2007 12:50pm at .
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!
  6. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 10:07pm


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Locu5
    So your school doesn't really actively compete in striking or grappling tournaments, but a few of your guys have done some amateur MMA, then? How do they do (records)?
    I dunno. Someone told me that one of our kids took his division. Like I said, I really don't follow the MMA tourneys and have never been to one.

    I understand a lot of schools ramp up sparring/randori (though I disagree with this method, it may just be a matter of different semantics or paradigm). So by what belt do students regularly participate in fully resistant randori?
    Fully resistant randori is a fight to the death. :)

    But I think I know what you mean. There's no set belt level; it depends on the student. I remember when our two most recent black belts started. I was giving them full energy (without counters) when they were orange. I was only a brownie. I broke my ribs a little after that. I was brown (I think) when that happened. But like I said, even last night I requested a slow for form randori because I couldn't make my body work right.

    Also, how do your amateur MMA fighters train differently for upcoming fights?
    I don't want to be misleading. Sanjuriu doesn't have MMA fighters, we train in Sanjuriu. Some Sanjuriu guys have dabbled in MMA, but we have more MMA guys taking our art than visa versa. I don't claim to speak for them, or anyone. I'm just little ole me; I'm not the spokes-person for anyone else.

    :)

    We got trolled this afternoon, probably from someone reading this forum, and one of the questions was about tourneys. I recommended other arts and dojos nearby, because that's not a motivation for us, collectively speaking. Wait, I just spoke for us. Dang it. :)
    Last edited by SocraticBass; 7/10/2007 10:37pm at .
  7. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 10:15pm


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamash
    Btw, does your school forbid cross training? Oh, and thank you for posting the info on Paul and Shepard. Do you know the full name of the Sudo fellow?
    Here's my rub with cross-training. First of all, we don't forbid cross-training at all. But, personally I think we should. We've had two cross-trainers in the six years I have been training, not counting MMA. I like the MMA guys for the most part. A bunch of them are big, bad-ass looking biker dudes replete with tats and dew rags, etc. But they're decent people... by that I mean, looks can be deceiving. Most of them really like us and appreciate what we do, especially in helping get up some MMA tourneys locally.

    My problem is when you teach a technique one week, and then hear about somebody sharing the same technique in their "home" dojo or a demo the next week. That bugs me. No one says anything about it, but it still bugs me.

    We don't at all forbid cross-training, but there are instances that I believe that we should.
  8. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 10:20pm


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neko687
    I apologize, thatís not what I was trying to say at all, My point (if poorly expressed) was that the document is already on display on a place where the chances of somebody with at least a minimum knowledge on Japanese, or martial arts, is lower, but when propose to display it in here, where people can go ahead and give you translations etc. you become reluctant to show what you so proudly display in your office, it's weird to say the least.


    Well, I figure no one is going to take the time to translate it. And I'd personally love to get it translated, but I would want to be there with the person and with the only copy, then get it back. If it were my dojo, I'd put it out on display.

    Also, I never though I would ever say something like this, but you would be better serve and should go and practice Aikido or any other "traditional" japanese martial art.
    Thanks, but no thanks. If the day should ever come that I'm better than my teacher, I'll branch out. Six years later, I have much to learn.
  9. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 10:34pm


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kiaiki
    I am, however, annoyed that claims for Sanjuriu discussed here on Bullshido lack supporting factual evidence - because some poor dudes will pay good money for tuition and may be being duped into supporting a McDojo.

    I am also sorry for you personally, as it cannot be easy to come to this forum to defend what must now look like a pretty questionable MA, even to you. It must also make you feel annoyed at us for exposing it, and maybe annoyed at yourself for investing so much time in Sanjuriu.
    First of all, if you are sincerely that noble, then you have my appreciation. Second, I'm not annoyed in the slightest.

    My concern is for anyone drawn into the organisation who receives either poor MA instruction or is not getting what they had a right to receive, if they believe the hype and swallow the Japanese facade.
    Again, quite noble of you. Of course, you could always come an "inspect" our MA instruction and judge for yourself.

    There's a good reason why all dates and names may be kept vague - a specific claim of a lineage or a qualification would leave them open to prosecution if it proved not to be true, and had formed the basis on which students chose them and paid them as instructors. In other words, it would be fraudulent if true.
    Only three problems with that. One is that we teach Sanjuriu and our instructors are certified in Sanjuriu. Two is that any challenge a prosecutor makes would be made against an art that on its absolute worst day is 60 years old, and three you assume that Reale and company can't pull out whatever they want from their desk drawer whenever they want.

    If I were an instructor in such circumstances I would get out - fast - and find a genuine JMA to learn.
    I think what we are learning is quite genuine enough. But thanks for the concern!
  10. El Neko is offline
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    "Yes Neko, please keep telling me more about your manly collection of Star Wars audiobooks"

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    Posted On:
    7/10/2007 11:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass
    [/color]Well, I figure no one is going to take the time to translate it. And I'd personally love to get it translated, but I would want to be there with the person and with the only copy, then get it back. If it were my dojo, I'd put it out on display.
    if I were asking you to mail me your only copy of a document I would totally understand this as a relatively decent excuse, however for a scan... it just sounds like a cop out.

    You didn't figure ****, you, once more, assume.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!

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