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  1. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 8:57am


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamash
    I'm confused by this as well. At one point in the thread it seemed that Sanjuriu schools didn't spar at all in class but it was ok if students wanted to spar on their own. At another post SocraticBass said that most sparring was stupid done and done by stupid people. At yet another post he said be preferred "intense" randori. SocraticBass also said that Sanjuriu sponsered the C.A.G.E. fighter tournaments in tennessee and that some students competed.

    Since I've not been to his school I'm not going to call him a liar so I'll take him at his word and assume that some students decide to compete on their own and that competition outside of class isn't frowned upon.
    Come on guys, reading is fundamental! :)

    Sanjuriu does not spar as part of its training.
    Sanjuriu particpants are not forbidden from sparring.
    Sparring involves one vs. one technique, we prefer randori and preparation for multiple attackers.
    I stated that I prefer intense randori.

    I was wrong to say that sparring is done by stupid people, and I apologize for that.

    However I do believe that most sparring is stupid. Perhaps my experience in watching it has just been skewed. My experiences sparring have required me to pull my punches. I didn't care for it.

    And yes, CAGE is us in partnership with an MMA school that we let use our dojo. Our students are free to enter if they wish, but most of them have responsibilities making sure the event gets pulled off. (Setting up mats, working concessions, etc.)

    Perhaps, I should say that I personally frown upon competition because it reduces the art to sport. It is a philosophical concern for me. I am also not involved with the CAGE set-up and have yet to attend an event.

    Out for the day,

    SB
  2. Grashnak is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 9:00am

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     Style: Nothing current

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is interesting. While I was doing a quick google search to see if I could find any record of anyone with a stated style of "Sanjuriu" in any MMA event, I stumbled upon this:

    Sanjuriu

    About usWe are a 2000 dojo,2 wearhouse, and 10 retail store company growing fast. We are currently looking for suppliers of martial arts equipment of any kind. However we demand high quality and very competitive pricing.

    Industry FocusMartial Arts ,Weight Lifting ,Martial Arts ,Gymnastics ,

    Business TypeDistributor/Wholesaler

    Products/Services Martial arts equipment
    Our MarketsWorldwide
    No. of Employees51 - 100 People
    Annual Sales Range(USD)Above US$100 Million
    Year Established23

    Contact Information
    Contact Person
    Mr Caleb Shepard
    Address7815 Oak Ridge Hwy #1, Knoxville, Tennessee,
    United States
    Zip Code37931
    Telephone1 865 5605303
    Mobile
    Fax1 865 5605337
    Websitehttp://sanjuriu.com
    This is posted on Bizearch.com http://www.bizearch.com/company/Sanjuriu_58826.htm.

    Sanjuriu has 2000 dojos?????

    How do they manage that with 51-100 employees?

    I'm confused. The odor of McDojo is strong with this one.

    (edited for formatting)
    Jesus loves you. I think you're an asshole.
  3. Shamash is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 9:47am


     Style: ex-Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass

    However I do believe that most sparring is stupid. Perhaps my experience in watching it has just been skewed. My experiences sparring have required me to pull my punches. I didn't care for it.

    SB

    If you are pulling all of your punches during sparring, you are probably doing it wrong. You need to be making adequate contact to ensure that it is being done realistically. I agree that point and no contact sparring is stupid. It creates extremely bad habbits.

    IMHO, training to fight multiple attackers is unrealistic. I don't know of any style that can train the average person to successfully defend against a group of bad guys intent on harming you. I don't even think most professional fighters could fight off multiple attackers without the use of weapons.

    Maybe some of the members on this board who train in full contact styles can give Socratic Bass an in depth explanation on how sparring can be both realistic and relatively safe at the same time.
  4. El Neko is offline
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    "Yes Neko, please keep telling me more about your manly collection of Star Wars audiobooks"

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 9:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass
    However I do believe that most sparring is stupid. Perhaps my experience in watching it has just been skewed. My experiences sparring have required me to pull my punches. I didn't care for it.

    Like every personal opinion, you have the right to think this, but remeber that sparring was an esential part of martial arts, and yes, the rules were less restrictive, but I can not get away with getting injure because more likely than not, I will have to be in the office tomorrow.

    You don't like pulling punches? train with gear, still pulling punches, train against people that are better than you, still pulling punches? maybe sparring is just not for you


    Quote Originally Posted by SocraticBass
    Perhaps, I should say that I personally frown upon competition because it reduces the art to sport. It is a philosophical concern for me. I am also not involved with the CAGE set-up and have yet to attend an event.
    I don't know what do you have against sport (the whole jutsu vs do in your case already came up). But tell me this, do you believe that a martial art is more valuable because they have the "jutsu" at the end against the "do"? also, do you think that Judo, Brazilian jiu jitsu, Tae kwon do etc. are shitty or less than a martial art comparing to arts that don't compete?
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right.

    But still, something about having a black guy or a lesbian jump out from behind a garbage can yelling "SURPRISE GONG SAU" at any of your big-named RBSD kooks makes me giggle like a little girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    There are two kinds of members on MAP:

    1. LARPers/Partial Artists
    2. People who haven't heard about Bullshido.
    The Mighty McClaw to Fox when refusing to fight AnnaT.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw
    Don't fight girls? When are you living, the 1850's? I suppose you think they shouldn't work or vote either.
    Get with the times and punch a chick.
    Wingchundo's response after I called him a "*****"

    Quote Originally Posted by wingchundo View Post
    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Ok, time for a snappy comeback.... uh...

    OK. Here goes.

    You are what you eat!
  5. kiaiki is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 11:59am


     Style: Aikido Ceteris Paribus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Names, names - honestly, you won't get any - we've spent hours of fun trying.:eusa_wall

    Now about these 'menkyo' that keep being mentioned:
    Menkyo kaiden (免許皆伝:めんきょかいでん) is a Japanese term meaning "license of total transmission." (Wikipedia, American spelling). Just WHO has transmitted the whole of WHAT to Sanjuriu?


    There is only one ingredient lacking in this garbled mess of half-baked terminology and bastardised techniques and I'm waiting with bated (yes that's how you spell it) breath to find that the secret master who passed the scrolls on to Sanjuriu to enlighten the world was.......a Soke Grandmaster of Anothermadeupryu.

    He was in turn gifted with awareness and aliveness by a priestly being who once travelled far to the east to be initiated by still more secret masters in the science and art of Llareggub. (OK, if you're that thick read the word backwards:) ) :alien:

    Sorry - getting cynical, I'll wait for a phoenix-like phenomenon to bring forth the names of those who truly KNOW that they are great. ;)

    And for those in the UK:
    Sanjuriu do Spar - they're far too posh to do Morrisons or Sainsburys. :)

    As for the 'do' and 'jutsu' terminology, if 'do' is good enough for Homer Simpson it's good enough for me! :)

    I have studied Iaido with a 'live' katana. There is no sparring. However, there is Kendo which meets all those requirements. In Sanjuriu, how is the art ever tested?

    Can we agree that these tricky words like 'randori' involve competition. In my own 'ryu' there is 'jiyuwaza' which requires defence against a series of attacks and may be closer to 'combat' in that there are no rules, just a predetermined series of attacks, which ranges from a given punch at beginner level to random 'live' (sharp) tanto attacks at BB level. What exactly do you do in Sanjuriu?

    It is my mission in life to spread at least one useless piece of information a day. Today's is the meaning of 'bated breath'. Commonly written incorrectly as 'baited breath' (halitosis?), the word 'bated' is a contraction of 'abated' and therefore refers to holding your breath back. Therefore I am holding my breath awaiting names from Sajuriu's past - and will therefore probably die very soon... :(

    Domo Arigato Gozaimashita

    Last edited by kiaiki; 7/09/2007 1:43pm at .
  6. Lujke is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 2:55pm


     Style: Systema & BJJ noob,x BBT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Farewell, Kiaiki. It was nice knowing you.

    Though, for my piece of useless information, it's pretty well impossible to kill yourself by holding your breath - unless you happen to hit your head on a kerbstone when you faint.
  7. MrGalt is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 4:53pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While we're all being jerks about spelling, SB, can you honestly ask in whatever you think is the most respectful way you can why the name of the style is misspelled? りゅう could be ryū or ryu or ryuu, but I've never seen anyone anywhere romanize it as "riu" which would be りう in kana, which wouldn't be the same word. Ever since I saw the handbills at the gym the "riu" has baffled me.
  8. Shamash is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 5:17pm


     Style: ex-Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To be honest SocracticBass, the major problem I have with Sanjuriu is that it claims to teach aikijutsu and yet no one knows if anyone actually has any rank in aikijutsu or who they got it from. That just isn't consistent with what I know about jma. I can trace my Isshinryu instructor's lineage all the way back to Shimabuku Tatsuo. Students were expected to know what styles Shimabuku studied before creating Isshinryu. Every once in while, he would even tell us exactly which style a particular technique came from. Hell we had black and white photographs of Shimabuku's teachers hanging on the wall. There was never any mystery about what we were learning or where it came from. I would think aikijutsu would be even more proud of its lineage than Isshinryu. "I learned it from a guy in Japan" is very suspicious.
  9. Grashnak is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 7:23pm

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     Style: Nothing current

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MrGalt
    While we're all being jerks about spelling, SB, can you honestly ask in whatever you think is the most respectful way you can why the name of the style is misspelled? りゅう could be ryū or ryu or ryuu, but I've never seen anyone anywhere romanize it as "riu" which would be りう in kana, which wouldn't be the same word. Ever since I saw the handbills at the gym the "riu" has baffled me.
    I respectfully submit that until I see proof to the contrary, I'm going to assume that no one at Sanjuriu knows the difference between a ryu and a gaaso-stando.

    I knew I could never take Japanese seriously after my Japanese 101 teacher said "oraingee-juuusuuu" for the first time. :tongue5:
    Jesus loves you. I think you're an asshole.
  10. SocraticBass is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/09/2007 10:08pm


     Style: Sanjuriu, Aikijutsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, here we go.

    Sanjurui is a spelling used more recently. Prior to that it was Sanzyu-ryu Jujitsu which was taught by Sudo Sensei in the 1940's and 1950's. As to whether or not it has been altered, I have no idea. The only information open to anyone regarding Sanzyu-ryu Jujitsu is that it is connected to Paul Arel in which it is stated that these techniques were the foundations of Judiko Jujitsu and Kokando Karate. Other online sources say that Paul Arel never left the techniques of Sanzyu-ryu or the teachings of Sudo Sensei. Other websites claim he altered the techniques to make them more effective.

    Shepherd Reale and Paul Arel are contemporaries and are around the same age. I cannot answer as to whether Reale studied under Paul Arel, or they both studied under Sudo Sensei. Only Paul and Shep could answer that question. Apparently, as someone else stated, the two men were close, but there was an ideological difference about the art and they parted ways. It doesn't sound like a happy split, but neither of the men have talked about it openly to my knowledge. At this point, I honestly believe that the other poster named sanjuriu must have been from the Colorado school, or perhaps is an Arel student, because he claims to have heard who trained who, and he was aware of the split, and he had spoken with both men.

    After the split, it seems that Arel went on to redefine and rename sanzuryu jujitsu. According to his site, he trained in other art forms before forming his own art, called it Jukido & Kokondo Karate. I suppose that only an Arel student, or Shihan Arel, can speak to any of this at all.

    At the same time that Arel was redefining and branching out with new techniques, as near as I can tell Reale went into seclusion, only training a select few people. I am not sure if this split took place around the time of the Korean War when all the training was getting publicized, or if it was around the time of Vietnam War. Since Kokondo was formed in 1970, it leaves one to wonder if that wasn't a sore spot between the two. Since neither is talking about it openly, I may never know the answer. But my sensei says that Reale mentioned Mas Oyama, and Arel's website says that this happened in 1965, so this too leads one to believe that the split happened sometime around 1970.

    My sensei says that Shihan Reale is quiet man, content to live out his days with what he knows. My sensei also says that there are scrolls from which the menkyo is taken. I honestly don't think anyone but Reale knows anything about their authenticity. The content is apparently our specific techniques as they relate to each menkyo, and a bit about honor code. My sensei also says that the spelling Sanjuriu was taken because Reale (and perhaps his instructor) said it was the better way to read it in English, because English speakers were saying it that way anyway.

    I confess, I don't read Japanese. My menkyo could be made up kanji, or they could be the actual kanji contained in the Sanzyu-Ryu jujitsu menkyos. Either way, they are the same menkyo's used in our system since the Vietnam War (and perhaps the Reale / Arel split).

    I do not know who officially was transmitted the information of Sanzyu-Ryu Jujitsu from Sudo Sensei. Perhaps both men were. Perhaps Reale was Arel's student, but returned to Japan to study what Sudo Sensei studied; I honestly have absolutely no idea. Paul Arel's site claims:

    "Mr. Arel was one of the first occidental black belts in the United States."

    I have no knowledge about the authenticity of this claim, or if Reale was training with him at this time. But I feel certain that the information regarding the relationship and the split between Reale and Arel is accurate.

    It's a testimony to these two men's respect for each other, that neither is out dogging the other one's training or school. At least if they are, they do just between the two of them it in private. I've never heard the first bad thing in our school about anyone's MA.

    Unfortunately for us, one man went very public and has published a book with kata, throws, and techniques. One man has posted his creditials and is, as far as I can tell, respected by his MA peers. The other man, from which our art has been passed, doesn't even do the whole email / computer thing. He's aparently very quite, very confident, and doesn't talk much about anything.

    He seems content to let people draw their own conclusions about the art. He didn't exactly keep the Sanzu-Ryu name, but reportedly felt as though he had permission to change the spelling.

    After talking for a while, my sensei asked me a question that was asked to him. He said, "David, what you really have to ask yourself is do you want to be the echo or the voice?"

    Personally, the whole experience has been very positive whether or not I got every question answered. No one seems to be breaking silence in either camp, and honestly, pursuit of such things is only an attempt to be the echo.
    Last edited by SocraticBass; 7/10/2007 8:02am at .

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