I have to put my 2 cents in on this one. Now I have had Eng PHYs I and II and the fysucs stuff is fine that is a different debate, it is not the one I am interested in here. The one I am interested in is the legal debate. It seems to me a lot of ppl give advice on these boards and most of it is good. But, I'll tell you from an LE perspective if you yank out a baton and start wacking someone it will not look good, end of story. In addition, it is generally considered assault with a deadly weapon unless you have a permit and training. I have had the ASP course and they always tell you NOT to hit the head *wink*. But, if you do get one of these little pissant toys you better know what you are dooing otherwise you are going to have stuck up your keaster. As for folders, you pull a knife, even in SD, you will see the judge. Now, depending on a lot of mitigating factors you might walk, you might get to join the special faternity of the "turned out" but I suppose it is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. If you really need a weapon find a good book on improvised weapons and find something that gives you the sense of protection that you seem to need. But remember, anything you carry, be ready to eat it, including a gun. :laughing1